Overruling Partner

[Mike Prince]

Scenario: bottom of last inning of 12U game, man on 2nd with one out. I am PU. Runner steals third, throw is high. The runner slides in headfirst (this league has an local rule prohibiting this), my partner gives the safe sign and is standing there waiting for the ball to get back to the pitcher before he moves back to "C" position. Does not call the head first slide.

I take 3-4 steps up the third base line, call "Time, the runner is out for a head first slide". 3B coach (also first-year head coach) is not aware of the rule and is amazed at the call. I calmly explain that the rule is for the player's own safety and is in the rule book. VT dugout backs me up (of course!), game proceeds, the coach is OK and game ends.

After game I get with my partner as soon as we get away from the field and out of earshot of spectators.

Me: "Sorry about the overrule, were you not aware of the head first rule?"

Him: "Yes, but I was going to let the 3B coach quietly know that was against the rules as a warning if no one said anything."

Me: "I have never seen that done in this league either as a coach or umpire, we have always been strict since it is a safety rule, the only warnings we are giving is on balks this early in the season (it is the first week)"

Him: "No worries, it's all good. See you Saturday."

So the question is, did I handle this correctly on and off of the field? This is a new partner for me and only the 2nd time we have worked together. I'm not sure I did the right thing jumping in with an overrule before the scenario played out how he had planned. We did a pregame but this was not covered as it is a clearly defined rule.

Edited April 23, 2010 by bikerider

[JaxRolo]

Sounds like No one had a problem with your call. But, It might have been better to call Time and talk to your partner first and let him override himself if he decides to. He blew the call not you.

I have always been told not to over rule.

[blp79]

Well since I have been thrown under the bus before I'll add my ,Off the field I will say yes you handled it well,but on the field .Do not ever call your partner out like that for god and everyone else to hear:WTF.Call time and get with him out of ear shot and tell him what you have but do not just come out and over rule your partner like that.I have had it happen twice, and it make your partner look like a total jack a$$.I understand this is a safety rule but in my opinion you could have handled it better.I know when it was done to me and I was fired up, and ready to insert my foot in my partners A$$ :BD:when the game was over.But our job is to protect the kids and I'm sure that is what you were trying to do by enforcing the rule,next time I would get with my partner before just coming out and overruling him like that :D

[kylejt]

By rule, you can't overrule any other umpires decision.

Here's what you do next time: Call time, and call him over. Explain what you had, and let him change his call. OR, let the other manager do his job, and question the call himself. If he's sharp enough, he protests the call, requiring the umpires to get together, THEN you get it right.

Those are your two choices, and I always lean toward the later.

[Mike Prince]

Thanks - good explanations that make me a better umpire and partner next time this happens. This site is great, appreciate the responses.

[BrianC14]

I hope you also had a respectful and sincere service for the "dead ball".

Hint: There is no such thing as a call of "Dead ball."

[BrianC14]

Well since I have been thrown under the bus before I'll add my ,Off the field I will say yes you handled it well,but on the field .Do not ever call your partner out like that for god and everyone else to hear:WTF.Call time and get with him out of ear shot and tell him what you have but do not just come out and over rule your partner like that.I have had it happen twice, and it make your partner look like a total jack a$$.I understand this is a safety rule but in my opinion you could have handled it better.I know when it was done to me and I was fired up, and ready to insert my foot in my partners A$$ :BD:when the game was over.But our job is to protect the kids and I'm sure that is what you were trying to do by enforcing the rule,next time I would get with my partner before just coming out and overruling him like that

No, it is not. Please stop spreading this myth.

Your job is to umpire a baseball game under the proscribed rules. Yes, that includes various safety rules at some levels, but your job is to ENFORCE those rules when they are broken. You are NOT there to "protect" anyone. :BD:

[blp79]

No, it is not. Please stop spreading this myth.

Your job is to umpire a baseball game under the proscribed rules. Yes, that includes various safety rules at some levels, but your job is to ENFORCE those rules when they are broken. You are NOT there to "protect" anyone.

yes we are there to call a game and part of that job is to protect the players

[BrianC14]

yes we are there to call a game and part of that job is to protect the players

Then I'm wondering... have any players ever been injured while you were working a game?

[PeteBooth]

By rule, you can't overrule any other umpires decision.

Here's what you do next time: Call time, and call him over.

If this BU was a kid himself I agree, however, for the vast majority of times I disagree with your premise.

Do not over-rule your partner - PERIOD.

Do not call TIME and speak to him (even if mono on mono away from everybody)

You say NOTHING, unless your partner asks you for help.

The BU said NOTHING - Leave it alone.

It's up to the Coach to do his job if he feels a rule was misappled.

if the coach asks for and is granted TIME simply tell him to speak to your partner - NO MEDDLING at this point since it was NOT your call.

If you hear those magic words - I PROTEST then as UIC you get involved, BUT the call still belongs to your partner.

In a nusthell NEVER over-rule your partner OR call TIME afterwards.

The place to correct is in POST game.

Pete Booth

[Big Red]

I hope you also had a respectful and sincere service for the "dead ball".

:rollinglaugh:

On the lighter side, I was just waiting for someone to catch that! LOL

Ladies and gentlemen, we are gathered here today to pay our respects to Rawlings, preceded by his brother, Wilson, who was lost at sea.

[Mike Prince]

Some more good info. One thing I love about umpiring is that I seem to learn something every game with new situations.

Now stuck in my head forever - when it's his call it's his alone, when it's mine it is mine alone. When one of us needs help we ask our partner for it.

[Mike Prince]

:rollinglaugh:

On the lighter side, I was just waiting for someone to catch that! LOL

Ladies and gentlemen, we are gathered here today to pay our respects to Rawlings, preceded by his brother, Wilson, who was lost at sea.

Actually it was a Riddell :meditation:

[Dragon29]

Gotta agree w/Pete here as I had exactly this scenario a couple of seasons ago in a LL Majors post-season game.

Exact situation isn't too important; suffice it to say that I saw a BR perform a head-first slide into 2B; my partner, a good umpire who works mostly LL Jrs & HS, called him 'Safe' (force of habit, I'm sure) and begins to trot into position.

Opposing manager/coaches say nothing, but before my partner gets to position, he gets a quizzical look on his face and calls Time. He comes over to me and asks, "Are head-first slides illegal at this level?" I tell him they are. He says, "Do you want to call him Out?" I say, "No, you do."

He just grinned and made the call. He asked me about my making the call as a joke; the team that was being penalized was from the league he usually calls for, so the coaches all knew him.

[mazzamouth]

If this BU was a kid himself I agree, however, for the vast majority of times I disagree with your premise.

Do not over-rule your partner - PERIOD.

Do not call TIME and speak to him (even if mono on mono away from everybody)

You say NOTHING, unless your partner asks you for help.

The BU said NOTHING - Leave it alone.

It's up to the Coach to do his job if he feels a rule was misappled.

if the coach asks for and is granted TIME simply tell him to speak to your partner - NO MEDDLING at this point since it was NOT your call.

If you hear those magic words - I PROTEST then as UIC you get involved, BUT the call still belongs to your partner.

In a nusthell NEVER over-rule your partner OR call TIME afterwards.

The place to correct is in POST game.

Pete Booth

there it is right there.... correct answer..now close this thread...LOL

[mazzamouth]

Some more good info. One thing I love about umpiring is that I seem to learn something every game with new situations.

Now stuck in my head forever - when it's his call it's his alone, when it's mine it is mine alone. When one of us needs help we ask our partner for it.

there are 7 times we can get together to change a call....one of these 7 you should tell him.

[kwiggie]

Do not over-rule your partner - PERIOD.

You say NOTHING, unless your partner asks you for help.

if the coach asks for and is granted TIME simply tell him to speak to your partner - NO MEDDLING at this point since it was NOT your call.

In a nusthell NEVER over-rule your partner OR call TIME afterwards. Pete Booth

This is probably the most important lesson I was taught very early on... PERIOD! For what it is worth this advice is, well put, well thought, and has served me well in a handful of occasions throughout the years... buy that man a beer!

[moblue]

Does it make a difference if it is a correctable error such as your partner mixing up the rule set (i.e. making a FED call in an OBR game)? I call Jr. Babe with guys who are HS certified often and so they call by that, but occasionally the call is wrong based only on the rules difference.

[noumpere]

Does it make a difference if it is a correctable error such as your partner mixing up the rule set (i.e. making a FED call in an OBR game)? I call Jr. Babe with guys who are HS certified often and so they call by that, but occasionally the call is wrong based only on the rules difference.

The method of correcting the error remains the same.

[bigblue89]

After reading through these i now know EXACTLY what the proper way is to handle this sort of situation. I stepped in and overruled my partner one day in a game and i should have let him over rule himself, we talked it over when we got a protest and he realized he was wrong and i didn't let him over rule it. Thank you everyone for the proper info, I LOVE THIS SITE!