what a day

[blp79]

Had this tonight bottom six,I'm in the c r1 ,r2 no out.batter hits a ankle high liner to f4,this ball was smoked.I turn following the ball and I have f4 with a catch,he throws to f3 double play.Hc goes nuts :hopmad:told me that was horrible, you suck.I should have dumped him there,But instead I warned him,I was trying my best to keep him in the game he did not have an assistant and it's the bottom of the sixth.Well on his way back to the box he had to press his luck and gives me the blue you need your eyes checked,:wave:well coach have a nice day,and thanks for coming.Well we move to the seventh Visitors at bat I hear the rat barking instructions to his players from the fence what part of your gone do you not understand?I call time get with my partner and of course there is no one there from the school to deal with this guy.So my partner tells him that play is suspended until he leaves,finally after about 5 mins he leaves and we finish the game.As i'm going through the gate here comes the rat he meets me at the gate with his finger in my chest to inform me that he would see that I never step foot on his ball park again,I reply ok coach that's fine good game.

[Umpire in Chief]

Make sure you get this reported to the proper league authorities.

[BrianC14]

Make sure you get this reported to the proper league authorities.

Absolutely. He made physical contact with you? Wow. I'm no lawyer, nor do I play one on the internet, but this should be reported immediately to your high school activities association, your assignor, as well as the school's A.D.

By the way, if there were no coaches present after you dumped him, the game really should have been suspended right there.

[blp79]

Make sure you get this reported to the proper league authorities.

Absolutely. He made physical contact with you? Wow. I'm no lawyer, nor do I play one on the internet, but this should be reported immediately to your high school activities association, your assignor, as well as the school's A.D.

By the way, if there were no coaches present after you dumped him, the game really should have been suspended right there.

I already got it reported just finished it up,and I have already had a call from the school A.D.Brian I agree about the game being suspended after I dumped him but my partner let the trainer who was with the team step in and finish the game,I dont know if that was the right call or not but we finished the game.I was shocked by this guys behavior I have never had anything like that before,the A.D assured me he would deal with his coach and that he does not speak for his school when hiring umpires.

[Big Red]

...with his finger in my chest to inform me that he would see that I never step foot on his ball park again,I reply ok coach that's fine good game.

BLP,

In addition to what Warren and Brian mentioned, I would seriously consider filing a report w/ your local police as this is considered Simple Assault/Disorderly Conduct in nearly every state (not sure where you live) and you can press charges if need be.

If anything or you don't feel like taking it that far, which is understandable, they can take a Disturbance or Information report and will have it on file so that you can include it in your report to the appropriate officials mentioned above.

Reason I mention that is it bothers me that this guy would go out of his way after the game to not only make physical contact w/ you, but also throw in a threat as well.

I realize this may seem heavy and some will feel it is an over-reaction, but I used to be a cop and we had a local tough-guy who we hooked for beating up his wife....he had a history of assaults. A bit of a long story, but came to find out, he also coached a 7-8 yr old team (so much for background checks!!) and was known for doing what you mention and was already under investigation by the league for wanting to fight w/ an opposing coach DURING a game!!!!

Yeah, may be nothing but over-zealous, yet inappropriate blowing of steam, but this guy NEEDS to be put on notice, if for nothing else so that you and potentially others hopefully won't have to deal with this again, and this is one sure way of doing it.

As Brian mentioned in another thread, our job is tough enough but we shouldn't have to suffer fools....or worse!

[blp79]

BLP,

In addition to what Warren and Brian mentioned, I would seriously consider filing a report w/ your local police as this is considered Simple Assault/Disorderly Conduct in nearly every state (not sure where you live) and you can press charges if need be.

If anything or you don't feel like taking it that far, which is understandable, they can take a Disturbance or Information report and will have it on file so that you can include it in your report to the appropriate officials mentioned above.

Reason I mention that is it bothers me that this guy would go out of his way after the game to not only make physical contact w/ you, but also throw in a threat as well.

I realize this may seem heavy and some will feel it is an over-reaction, but I used to be a cop and we had a local tough-guy who we hooked for beating up his wife....he had a history of assaults. A bit of a long story, but came to find out, he also coached a 7-8 yr old team (so much for background checks!!) and was known for doing what you mention and was already under investigation by the league for wanting to fight w/ an opposing coach DURING a game!!!!

Yeah, may be nothing but over-zealous, yet inappropriate blowing of steam, but this guy NEEDS to be put on notice, if for nothing else so that you and potentially others hopefully won't have to deal with this again, and this is one sure way of doing it.

As Brian mentioned in another thread, our job is tough enough but we shouldn't have to suffer fools....or worse!

Red I see what your saying but I dont think it went that far,I'll let the state assoc and his school deal with him.I am still shocked in how he acted,honestly I was waiting on him to throw a punch.

[Big Red]

Red I see what your saying but I dont think it went that far,I'll let the state assoc and his school deal with him.I am still shocked in how he acted,honestly I was waiting on him to throw a punch.

BLP,

I hear ya & understand...just wanted to throw out an option for you as this is way over the line, and as you even admit were shocked.

And if he did make physical contact with you in this context, it did go far enough for what is sometimes called "simple" assault (or whatever your state may call it)...doesn't have to be injury involved. It's similar to a girl getting her butt grabbed and falls in the same category. From the TX Penal Code, read #3:

Sec. 22.01. ASSAULT.

(a) A person commits an offense if the person:

(1) intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly causes bodily injury to another, including the person's spouse;

(2) intentionally or knowingly threatens another with imminent bodily injury, including the person's spouse; or

(3) intentionally or knowingly causes physical contact with another when the person knows or should reasonably believe that the other will regard the contact as offensive or provocative.

Don't want to turn this into a legal forum, but something for everyone out there to keep in mind when dealing w/ some of these @ss-clowns.

Not saying you have to file that particular report and charges, but can just file an Information report for future reference/historical purposes. Hopefully the assoc and/or school hammer him appropriately! Good luck! :crazy:

[Big Red]

And in the "gee whiz, FWIW" column, it's interesting to note that TX modified their Assault laws to upgrade an offense under (2) or (3) from a Class C misdemeanor (basically a ticket) to a Class B, punishable by time in the hooskow/big fine if it involves a sports spectator (nothing specifically about participants)...check it out:

© An offense under Subsection (a)(2) or (3) is a Class C misdemeanor, except that the offense is:

(2) a Class B misdemeanor if the offense is committed by a person who is not a sports participant against a person the actor knows is a sports participant either:

(A) while the participant is performing duties or responsibilities in the participant's capacity as a sports participant; or

(

in

retaliation

for or on account of the participant's performance of a duty or responsibility within the participant's capacity as a sports participant.

"Sports participant" means a person who participates in any official capacity with respect to an interscholastic, intercollegiate, or other organized amateur or professional athletic competition and includes an athlete, referee, umpire, linesman, coach, instructor, administrator, or staff member.

Something to remember next time li'l Johnny's mom attacks you for not calling the catcher for "double dribble!" :Horse:

[yawetag]

if it involves a sports spectator (nothing specifically about participants)

Because it's exempt in that code, I would think there's a specific code for assault of a participant.

[Guest]

And in the "gee whiz, FWIW" column, it's interesting to note that TX modified their Assault laws to upgrade an offense under (2) or (3) from a Class C misdemeanor (basically a ticket) to a Class B, punishable by time in the hooskow/big fine if it involves a sports spectator (nothing specifically about participants)...check it out:

© An offense under Subsection (a)(2) or (3) is a Class C misdemeanor, except that the offense is:

(2) a Class B misdemeanor if the offense is committed by a person who is not a sports participant against a person the actor knows is a sports participant either:

(A) while the participant is performing duties or responsibilities in the participant's capacity as a sports participant; or

(B) in

retaliation

for or on account of the participant's performance of a duty or responsibility within the participant's capacity as a sports participant.

"Sports participant" means a person who participates in any official capacity with respect to an interscholastic, intercollegiate, or other organized amateur or professional athletic competition and includes an athlete, referee, umpire, linesman, coach, instructor, administrator, or staff member.

Something to remember next time li'l Johnny's mom attacks you for not calling the catcher for "double dribble!" B)

Only issue there is that unlike Canada, as I'm sure you are all well aware, the US justice system and laws are defined at the state level (the concept of which I've never really understood).

So while Texas may have taken a great step in this type of legislation, there is a possibility that it exists only in Texas. Go figure.

Unless the guy took a swing at you, under these circumstances, its best to just let the various league / school admin deal with this. Look at the grand scheme of things: you're reporting that a guy poked you in the chest and all you have to ID him is that he's the AC of school X's baseball team - I don't think the police are gonna waste their time with with that one. The threat is pretty meaningless too - it's not like he told you he'd knock your teeth down your throat if he saw you assigned to one of his games again. This guy sounds like a Class 1 dickhead...lemme at him for a game B)

I don't know where your partner was, but this guy should not have been allowed to get this close to you after anyway.

Irregardless, in the baseball world he broke rule #1 and that's touching an umpire. Hope you wrote it up in good detail.

[blp79]

Only issue there is that unlike Canada, as I'm sure you are all well aware, the US justice system and laws are defined at the state level (the concept of which I've never really understood).

So while Texas may have taken a great step in this type of legislation, there is a possibility that it exists only in Texas. Go figure.

Unless the guy took a swing at you, under these circumstances, its best to just let the various league / school admin deal with this. Look at the grand scheme of things: you're reporting that a guy poked you in the chest and all you have to ID him is that he's the AC of school X's baseball team - I don't think the police are gonna waste their time with with that one. The threat is pretty meaningless too - it's not like he told you he'd knock your teeth down your throat if he saw you assigned to one of his games again. This guy sounds like a Class 1 dickhead...lemme at him for a game B)

I don't know where your partner was, but this guy should not have been allowed to get this close to you after anyway.

Irregardless, in the baseball world he broke rule #1 and that's touching an umpire. Hope you wrote it up in good detail.

Honestly I could care less about his threat,or if I ever work another game for that school.And yes it was wrote up in great detail. So far this morning I have calls from his school and the state Assoc.And yes he was a class 1 DI@#H%@*

and I wasn't giving his all stars the breaks he wanted.As far as my partner I dont have a clue I left,I didn't need him to walk me to my vehicle.

[DirtyDawg]

It's ok, Dick Head isn't a bad word, or bad set of words.

[Thunderheads]

Honestly I could care less about his threat,or if I ever work another game for that school.And yes it was wrote up in great detail. So far this morning I have calls from his school and the state Assoc.And yes he was a class 1 DI@#H%@*

and I wasn't giving his all stars the breaks he wanted.As far as my partner I dont have a clue I left,I didn't need him to walk me to my vehicle.

BLP, ...what was he all pi$$ed about ? Did he think the ball by F4 wasn't caught? Or, that the DP attempt ...he was safe?

Just curious!? B)

[blp79]

BLP, ...what was he all pi$$ed about ? Did he think the ball by F4 wasn't caught? Or, that the DP attempt ...he was safe?

Just curious!? B)

He was arguing that the ball hit the ground and f4 trapped it,But he Bit$#*& all game and I finally had enough when he started getting personal.

[HokieUmp]

As far as my partner I dont have a clue I left,I didn't need him to walk me to my vehicle.

That's just not a safe practice.

Look, I'm not casting aspersions on you - you're a grown man, and I'm sure you can take care of yourself. However, you and any/all partners are the third team in the game, and you're the ONLY team on the field with no friends/allies.

All teachings I've ever been part of say that you walk on and walk off the field together. When you walk off, the conventional wisdom is to go via the winning team's dugout or exit point, since they're the happier ones; I can't say I always do that, since it's not always the shortest path out.

My association - and I can only speak to ours, since I've not really been part of any other - insists that umpires park together (preferably a place away from fans/participants, within reason), and that both leave the facility at the same time, unless one ump "releases" the other.

And sh1t happens after a game. Last year, after a particularly contentious Legion Sr game (it's essentially a summer version of a blood feud between 2 Norfolk schools), my partner and I were given a ration by a dad. It started when he interjected to me the phrase "Let me give you some advice." As you might guess, I was thrilled to be told by a layperson how I could better myself. It ended around the time where I said "You know what? You can take your 18 years of pro experience and shove it up your ass. How's that grab you?"**

**Note: above phraseology not recommended for use in actual arguments. And if you DO decide to use something similar to what said, don't forget to ALSO do what I did, and make sure you include that in your post-incident report.

(His '18 years of pro experience,' I've been told, is as a local scout with the Cubs. Don't know if it's a full time gig or not, but still: even if you've contributed to players to their farm system, they haven't really been within a sniff of a title for 102 years - how bad do you and all the other "Baseball Operations" guys have to suck for that to happen? And you want to give ME advice??? B))

Anyway, even if this threat is not enough to worry you, take this away: come in and leave with your partner. You might not need the muscle, but you might need the witness.

[blp79]

Hokie I agree 100%,but when your partner is a hometown boy who is buddy buddy with the coach and fans and to busy talking with them through the fence,I dont know about you but i'm not sticking around to wait on him when I have a Pissed off mob and coach waiting for me.And I did leave through the winning teams gate the coach just made it a point to catch up with me before i got out.

[BrianC14]

That's just not a safe practice.

Look, I'm not casting aspersions on you - you're a grown man, and I'm sure you can take care of yourself. However, you and any/all partners are the third team in the game, and you're the ONLY team on the field with no friends/allies.

All teachings I've ever been part of say that you walk on and walk off the field together. When you walk off, the conventional wisdom is to go via the winning team's dugout or exit point, since they're the happier ones; I can't say I always do that, since it's not always the shortest path out.

My association - and I can only speak to ours, since I've not really been part of any other - insists that umpires park together (preferably a place away from fans/participants, within reason), and that both leave the facility at the same time, unless one ump "releases" the other.

And sh1t happens after a game. Last year, after a particularly contentious Legion Sr game (it's essentially a summer version of a blood feud between 2 Norfolk schools), my partner and I were given a ration by a dad. It started when he interjected to me the phrase "Let me give you some advice." As you might guess, I was thrilled to be told by a layperson how I could better myself. It ended around the time where I said "You know what? You can take your 18 years of pro experience and shove it up your ass. How's that grab you?"**

**Note: above phraseology not recommended for use in actual arguments. And if you DO decide to use something similar to what said, don't forget to ALSO do what I did, and make sure you include that in your post-incident report.

(His '18 years of pro experience,' I've been told, is as a local scout with the Cubs. Don't know if it's a full time gig or not, but still: even if you've contributed to players to their farm system, they haven't really been within a sniff of a title for 102 years - how bad do you and all the other "Baseball Operations" guys have to suck for that to happen? And you want to give ME advice??? )

Anyway, even if this threat is not enough to worry you, take this away: come in and leave with your partner. You might not need the muscle, but you might need the witness.

LOL

When I first read that, I read:

"His '18 years of pro experience' is as a local with the Cub Scouts."

So the guy's a freakin' pro scout. Big fat hairy deal. He (allegedly) spends his time watching the players. And that translate to knowing baseball rules... well, OK, it doesn't.

I'd bet $1.00 that "Mr. Cub Scout" had a son playing that day.

[HokieUmp]

Hokie I agree 100%,but when your partner is a hometown boy who is buddy buddy with the coach and fans and to busy talking with them through the fence,I dont know about you but i'm not sticking around to wait on him when I have a Pissed off mob and coach waiting for me.

Ah. That part wasn't clear at the beginning.

Not sure what to do about that, then. Other than to suggest to your partner that he can socialize another time. Or even "You're getting paid, so act like a professional and save that $%^& for later."

[HokieUmp]

LOL

When I first read that, I read:

"His '18 years of pro experience' is as a local with the Cub Scouts."

So the guy's a freakin' pro scout. Big fat hairy deal. He (allegedly) spends his time watching the players. And that translate to knowing baseball rules... well, OK, it doesn't.

I'd bet $1.00 that "Mr. Cub Scout" had a son playing that day.

I wouldn't have taken that bet, anyway, but it wasn't just one son, but at least two. And he runs his mouth at every game he's at, according to what I found out after that game.

He'd already gotten his coaches into hot water earlier in that game. A kid on the other team tried to run down an overthrow with that "slide while picking up the ball" thing, except he got his foot wedged under fence. So he flipped the ball to a teammate, and it kept the runners in place. I hear "THAT'S A DEAD BALL" yelled loudly from the bench area, so I whip my head around, and say "no it isn't! Settle down!" Turns out it wasn't the coaches of the team - that's who I thought it was - but Mr Cub Scout. He likes to sit right next to the dugout, it seems.

It got more contentious in general as the game went on. What triggered the event was my partner and I were walking to our cars, and another adult walked up and said something like "Fun game, huh?" - not as a smart a$$, but in a more commiserating way. We talked for a bit, and then I said, "youth ball would be great, if we could play it without the parents." That was a) said between the three of us walking along, and a reference to all the fun we had later in the game, where parents of both teams were starting to ride the other teams kids harder. Sure, they're in the 16-19 range or so, but they're still kids. Mr Cub Scout was near us, and either thought I was referring to him, or just felt like it was time to get his shots in.

Not only did my assignor back me, but the guy that runs the Legion program in our area did as well. I still have some emails at work, and here's my favorite part of the response he sent out: "On the PR side of things, it's our work, that gives others their impression of legion baseball, I will not have a knucklehead tarnish that in any way. If this person can not control themselves, I will put an abrupt, ill-humored, and unpleasant end to his antics."

I love that last phrase.

[yawetag]

Anyway, even if this threat is not enough to worry you, take this away: come in and leave with your partner. You might not need the muscle, but you might need the witness.

:rollinglaugh:

[blp79]

Well today I had the Rat again,He was playing the local H.S. in my home town,and I had the dish.Had a good day zone was good but this guy just doesn't no when to quit he chirped about the zone until I shut him down,then he moved on to my partner after a banger at first,he came from the box at third on a run at my partner he didn't even make it to the mound before he got the hook.

And as in the game before he had no ac,and I suspended play.I have came to the conclusion that this guy is just a class a d*&k.That's 2 in a week for him i cant wait to see what the state does to this RAT.:wave:

[Big Red]

Well today I had the Rat again;

How was he even out there to begin with?!?!? I don't know if he already served some kind of suspension for the 1st incident you described (unlikely) , but doesn't sound like they did diddly-squat to him, which should've happened immediately. In our leagues, that would've earned him a minimum one month suspension, if not rest of season. That's disgusting & I'd be calling up the association raising hell. I would try to avoid any further scheduling involving that team as it might start to look like it's a personal issue. Hope you got some corroborating statements for your report.

Edited April 21, 2010 by Big Red

[Penguin]

Last May, a parent was a problem, standing behind backstop harassing my partner on every call. Stands are on the baselines, not behind backstop. Finally, UC tells HC he has to have fan in stands. Still complains loudly but is in stands. Finally home team scores 1-0 as it begins to rain - a good gusher for about 10 minutes. BTW - teams tied for conference title. We suspended game and when rain stopped began working on field. About 20 minutes after that we called coaches to mound with pitcher and had each of them take a couple throws to make sure footing was ok with all. No problems.

Teams take field again and we hear from Dad again about how we were "trying to injure his daughter" - the pitcher. UC stops game looks at coach and says game suspended until the fan was removed. Daughter embarassed beyond belief. Fan leaves. Following game we are going to car and fan shows up and pushed partner in chest. We turned around and walked back to coach - who called 911. By the time we got back to parking lot state troopers are their. He asked which fan and started getting out cuffs.

We were asked if we wanted to press charges for assault. He told us he was going to get arrested for disorderly conduct regardless. We declined to press charges. Received a letter from AD two days later stating parent was banned from attending any further games where that school was participating - including away games as part of an agreement with DA.

Neither the school or law enforcement was fooling around with this type of behavior. It kind of gives you a warm fuzzy knowing that they have your back.

[blp79]

How was he even out there to begin with?!?!? I don't know if he already served some kind of suspension for the 1st incident you described (unlikely) , but doesn't sound like they did diddly-squat to him, which should've happened immediately. In our leagues, that would've earned him a minimum one month suspension, if not rest of season. That's disgusting & I'd be calling up the association raising hell. I would try to avoid any further scheduling involving that team as it might start to look like it's a personal issue. Hope you got some corroborating statements for your report.

RED he served a 2 game suspension,which is state by law.As far as avoiding him I see no need in doing it I have no personal grudge with him,and we are hired by schools and I never ask who they are playing nor do I care.I am there do one thing call the best game I can,regardless of who is playing.And that was my partners EJ not mine so he gets the honor of doing the report.

[Big Red]

Blp,

My sincere apologies if I came across as questioning your integrity or professionalism, but I understand completely. When I was referring to it possibly getting personal, for some reason, I thought it was your ejection and the point I was making is that I could see him starting down the "it's a personal vendetta" path...trying to make life hell for ya in every possible way. Have seen it a few times.

Plus, when I read your post, I got a li'l fired up for one of my brothers-in-blue and let some of my own frustrations from similar situations, as well as a LL perspective influence my response...for most part, at least around here, they don't horse around w/ stuff like this and a coach doing that same thing would most likely be gone for season; I failed to consider it is HS and they are more forgiving.

Bad on me and spot on for all the points you made. I'd buy you a beer right now if I could!

On the bright side, you didn't mention any further shenanigans w/ this numb-nuts, so hopefully he learned a lesson (yeah, right).

On a side note, curious as to what size school this is or what situation it is that there is only the HC and no AC...I assume you've got players helping as base coach and makes ya wonder who coached the team while he was in time-out w/ his poopy pants. B)