Starting pitcher removed

[calablue]

Had a situation tonight in a 13-15 game, Babe Ruth league. I had a starting pitcher take 4 warmup throws and then tell his coach his arm is hurt and he can't pitch. Coach wants to replace him. I tell the coach he (the pitcher) can be replaced if he is injured but he must be removed from the game or he can pitch to the first batter and then move to a different position. I thought at the time that I had this right but am not so sure now. The rule I was applying was OBR 3.05a. It reads exactly the same as the Babe Ruth League rule 3.05a. summarized as follows: The pitcher named in the batting order handed to the UIC..........shall pitch to the first batter...........unless the pitcher sustains injury or illness which, in the judgement of the UIC, incapacitates him from pitching. I am questioning my ruling on this because I don't see anything in this rule that says he must be removed from the game if another pitcher replaces him. Is the injured pitcher allowed to move to another position ( 1st base maybe) and have another player take over for him on the mound? I know this would not happen in MLB but this being little league, most of the pitchers are already in the game anyway.

[kcfan102]

I believe he may stay in the game. I do mostly USSSA and in the games this has happened, we've always let the pitcher stay in the game, usually they play a position where a strong throwing arm isn't required like first base or something like that.

I don't have a rule I can cite right away, so I could be wrong.

[calablue]

You let him stay in the game without pitching to the 1st batter?

[mstaylor]

I have nothing to the contrary, Fed actually has that written in. Fed has a caseplay that even if it's disciplinary action by the manager.

[calablue]

MSTAYLOR.....I'm unclear on your statement.... are you saying that he is allowed to be moved to another position? and that FED rules actually state that?

[kcfan102]

If they pitcher is hurt, don't make them pitch if he/she doesn't want to. You can't force a player to play if he or she in injured. It's not fair to the player, or their team. If it's a pitcher, they can come out of the game after throwing 1, 8, or no warm up pitches. Or, they may go to another position.

As long as there is no doubt in your mind that he or she is injured.

[DirtyDawg]

I wouldn't even want to chance it, anyways. If you made the pitcher pitch, even to one batter, and the pitcher just so happens to get even a little bit more injured/sore, it's your @$$!!

[catoblue]

With the emphasis that is now put on "saving young arms" in youth baseball, I would allow the Mgr to pull the kid off the mound without pitching to a batter per 3.05(a), treating it as an injury.

I haven't found a rule that says he can't play another position.

[calablue]

I have no problem with him not throwing any pitches, and I think if his arm is hurt he shouldn't throw any. What I am asking is... can he stay in the game at another position if he doesn't pitch to the 1st batter? I could tell from his warm up throws that his arm was probably hurting him, but the coach wanted to keep him in the game still, just not on the mound. My problem with this is that it would open the door for any coach to list one pitcher to start the game and then replace him with another, after knowing the other team's lineup, simply by saying his arm is hurt. I think that if he's hurt enough to have to come off the mound before the game even starts ( and how could the coach be unaware of this before game time, unless he has sent the kid to the mound without throwing any warmup prior to the game? ) he should have to be removed from the game completely.

Edited April 1, 2010 by calablue

[noumpere]

MSTAYLOR.....I'm unclear on your statement.... are you saying that he is allowed to be moved to another position? and that FED rules actually state that?

I don't know if that's what he's saying, but that's what the FED rules are.

[yawetag]

RTFR.

3-1-1 Penalty: If the starting pitcher does not face one batter, he may play another position, but not return to pitch.

Edited April 2, 2010 by yawetag

[DirtyDawg]

I would think that worse come worse the coach could probably take him out and then find some way to put him back in, even if he has to use the reentry rule.

[DirtyDawg]

Or what yawetag said

[mstaylor]

Yes, that was what I was trying to say but I was missing some of the words. I typed it and it doesn't make sense to me. He can move to another position but he can't return as a pitcher. The point I was trying to make is it doesn't have to be an injury, it could be disciplinary.

[yawetag]

Yes, that was what I was trying to say but I was missing some of the words. I typed it and it doesn't make sense to me. He can move to another position but he can't return as a pitcher. The point I was trying to make is it doesn't have to be an injury, it could be disciplinary.

The rules say he "shall" pitch to the first batter, but if he doesn't, he can't return to pitch. There's nothing that limits this to injuries, so, yes, he can be removed for any reason.

I don't see coaches in high school ball having two line-ups depending on which pitcher starts. It's also not like MLB where, I believe, pitchers have to be annouced some time before the game begins.

[calablue]

OK Thanks guys. I've got it now. He can be moved to another position but cannot return to pitch later in the game. Well I guess I blew that one. Unfortunatenately it probably won't be the last time, but it will be the last time on that rule. It's like I've always told my son....anybody that tells you he's never screwed up a job has either never had a job or is a liar.:banghead:

[mstaylor]

I had that very discussion about that the other day with a couple of young umpires. I told them I have kicked rules in the past and will again, anybody that says they haven't hasn't called much.

[calablue]

Ain't it the truth. And I am a young umpire, not in age but in experience.:D

[Umpire in Chief]

Kicking one isn't all that bad, we all do it, we all will do it again. The problem is when people refuse to learn from their mistakes or even acknowledge their mistakes.