OBS ... move BR also?

[Thunderheads]

Do you move the BR as well ???

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=18094325

[Mr Umpire]

Tough judgment call there. No good angle shows all of the timing of things. One shows it to possibly be a close play at 2B b/c the relay man had the ball and BR was about halfway. I think it might have been a close play at 2B and why BR only stayed at 1B. He may have stopped b/c of the OBS but that may have saved them an out.

Ultimately, I think it was the correct place for BR to be after watching the replay and trying to get somewhat of the big picture. At 0:54 is about the best look at the big picture and where the ball is when BR is about halfway. It would have been close at 2B IMO.

[mazzamouth]

There is nothing in the rules about placing a Non OBS runner.. good call... only the OBS runner will get his awarded base.

[Thunderheads]

There is nothing in the rules about placing a Non OBS runner.. good call... only the OBS runner will get his awarded base.

they seem to be convinced otherwise 'over there' ...don't they ??:rolleyes:

[Mr Umpire]

7.06 (bee) If no play is being made on the obstructed runner, the play shall proceed until no

further action is possible. The umpire shall then call “Time†and impose such

penalties, if any, as in his judgment will nullify the act of obstruction.

This comes from the rule book. It is the same as Spectator INT. The umpire can put any runners where he sees fit would nullify the OBS. It is about placing non-OBS runners if the umpire feels that would nullify the act of OBS. It says NOTHING about limiting it to just the OBS runner. It says "impose such penalties ... will nullify the act of OBS". Seems pretty clear. I think their judgment was BR would have been out at 2B so he stayed at 1B.

[Mr Umpire]

From Jim Evans Diamond Challenge:

Situation

R1. Batter blasts a shot into the RC alley. R1 rounds 2B. Then collides with F6 who is watching the play in the outfield. R1 gets up and advances past 3B and about halfway home. He then decides to retreat back to 3B as the ball is relayed home.

What's your call?

7.06(bee) Runner should be awarded home. Even though he advanced 1 base beyond the OBS, he most likely would have scored without the impediment. Award BR 2B.

It doesn't say BR stayed at 1B b/c of OBS but it does imply he did and to "award" him 2B.

[johnnyg08]

There is nothing in the rules about placing a Non OBS runner.. good call... only the OBS runner will get his awarded base.

I think under some circumstances, they certainly could place the B/R at a base to nullify the OBS, even though he wasn't the direct victim of the Type 2 OBS.

In this case, if you support the Acta, you place Choo at 2B. I am thinking the reason they didn't put him on 2B is because he stopped and went back to 1B...had he gone all the way through to 2B, and was thrown out in a close play, could they have awarded him 2B...maybe since he retreated back to 1B, they didn't make the award?

Is that possible, or doesn't that apply in this example of OBS?

Thanks,

John

[noumpere]

There is nothing in the rules about placing a Non OBS runner.. good call... only the OBS runner will get his awarded base.

they seem to be convinced otherwise 'over there' ...don't they ??

I dont know where 'over there' is but mazzamouth is wrong because all runners can be placed where the umpires think they would of ended up.

In this play its judgement but i would of had the same judgement based on what I saw of the play but its close enough that others could legally have a different judgement.

[johnnyg08]

I saw somebody else post somewhere else that it is important to remember that this is a defensive penalty...and by keeping Choo at first, doesn't really penalize them at all. R1 got to 3b, and B/R is still at 1B.

Not saying that because the defense erred that you everything possible to stick it to them, but the benefit of the doubt certainly can/should swing to the offense in these cases.

[mstaylor]

The BR could be awarded second if they think he would have made it without the obstruction. I couldn't see where the lead runner was when the BR stopped. They may have saved an out which did penalized the defense.

[sdix00]

I agree that the rules allow the umpires to place the runner who was not obstructed.

However, I agree with the umpires here. No doubt that BR was going to try for 2B, however it is NOT a sure thing that he would have made it. F9 got the ball in quickly and any play at 2B would have been close.

Better to let the play stand than to guess in this case. As MST says, the OBS may have saved the Offense from an Out.

[mstaylor]

Of course we won't discuss the announcers saying it was an obvious interference. Interference/obstruction, they will get it right one these days. NEVER! :Horse:

[mazzamouth]

Thats cool you can say I was wrong.. but it is not the Umpires responsibility to judge on the guy who was not OBS.. I know they can per the rule.. but they will not..

[mazzamouth]

There is nothing in the rules about placing a Non OBS runner.. good call... only the OBS runner will get his awarded base.

they seem to be convinced otherwise 'over there' ...don't they ??

I dont know where 'over there' is but mazzamouth is wrong because all runners can be placed where the umpires think they would of ended up.

man you guys are quick to throw some one under the bus...LOL

[mazzamouth]

From Jim Evans Diamond Challenge:

Situation

R1. Batter blasts a shot into the RC alley. R1 rounds 2B. Then collides with F6 who is watching the play in the outfield. R1 gets up and advances past 3B and about halfway home. He then decides to retreat back to 3B as the ball is relayed home.

What's your call?

7.06(bee) Runner should be awarded home. Even though he advanced 1 base beyond the OBS, he most likely would have scored without the impediment. Award BR 2B.

It doesn't say BR stayed at 1B b/c of OBS but it does imply he did and to "award" him 2B.

in this play you posted it didnt say what the Br did..

[Thunderheads]

There is nothing in the rules about placing a Non OBS runner.. good call... only the OBS runner will get his awarded base.

they seem to be convinced otherwise 'over there' ...don't they ??

I dont know where 'over there' is but mazzamouth is wrong because all runners can be placed where the umpires think they would of ended up.

man you guys are quick to throw some one under the bus...LOL

don't throw ME into the "you guys" group :angel4:

[mazzamouth]

7.06 (bee) If no play is being made on the obstructed runner, the play shall proceed until no

further action is possible. The umpire shall then call “Time†and impose such

penalties, if any, as in his judgment will nullify the act of obstruction.

This comes from the rule book. It is the same as Spectator INT. The umpire can put any runners where he sees fit would nullify the OBS. It is about placing non-OBS runners if the umpire feels that would nullify the act of OBS. It says NOTHING about limiting it to just the OBS runner. It says "impose such penalties ... will nullify the act of OBS". Seems pretty clear. I think their judgment was BR would have been out at 2B so he stayed at 1B.

please dont quote rules... Im quite sure I know them....LOL but the rule say "to nullify OBS' the rule is talking about the OBS runner...

[mazzamouth]

[Mr Umpire]

Thats cool you can say I was wrong.. but it is not the Umpires responsibility to judge on the guy who was not OBS.. I know they can per the rule.. but they will not..

What is done in practice and what is done by the rules are 2 different things. This is another reason why MLB umpires are not to be followed in their practice. Per the rule, it is their responsibility to judge ALL runners involved in the entire play. If umpires choose not to do that, then that is their choice.

This is a completely different stance than your first posts on either site. Saying the rules don't cover it and saying the umpires won't do it are 2 different things. The rules DO cover it (which is why I posted it as a refresher course since you said the rules don't cover it) and it is covered under the "any penalties" part.

[Mr Umpire]

MLBUM 6.23 Play 6:

R1, 0 outs. On hit and run play, batter hits fair ball down RF line. In rounding 2B and heading for 3B, R1 collides with F6 and falls down. B/c of collision, R1 is not able to advance to 3B and returns to 2B as ball is being thrown back to infield. Had R1 not collided with F6, R1 would have easily advanced to 3B. (Sound familiar except R1 didn't advance)

Ruling: OBS is called when collision occurs, but ball remain in play b/c no play was being made on OBS runner at the moment he was OBS. "Time" is called when all action has ceased, and OBS runner is awarded 3B b/c that is the base he would have reached had no OBS occurred. BR would also be placed at the base he would have reached had no OBS occurred (either 1B or 2B, depending on the umpire's judgment).

Note: In the this play, if R1 had been thrown out going back into 2B, umpire would call "Time" the moment the runner is tagged out. OBS runner would then be awarded 3B (assuming that is the base he would have reached had no OBS occurred), and BR would also be placed at the base he would have reached, in the umpire's judgment, had no OBS occurred.

Notice it says NOTHING about what BR was doing either. But, if the umpire believes he would have made 2B on the play and turned around b/c of the OBS, BR would be placed on 2B. Whether or not MLB umpires do it, their choice. But, it is in their own manual.

[yawetag]

Taken just after he turned to return to 1B.

[mazzamouth]

Thats cool you can say I was wrong.. but it is not the Umpires responsibility to judge on the guy who was not OBS.. I know they can per the rule.. but they will not..

What is done in practice and what is done by the rules are 2 different things. This is another reason why MLB umpires are not to be followed in their practice. Per the rule, it is their responsibility to judge ALL runners involved in the entire play. If umpires choose not to do that, then that is their choice.

This is a completely different stance than your first posts on either site. Saying the rules don't cover it and saying the umpires won't do it are 2 different things. The rules DO cover it (which is why I posted it as a refresher course since you said the rules don't cover it) and it is covered under the "any penalties" part.