Positioning

[zm1283]

I always am in B with bases loaded. What advantage does being in C give you? What are your likely plays? A double play anywhere is going to be better from B. An infield makes no difference where you are and a fly to the outfield gives you enough time to move where ever you need. I see absolutely any reason to be in C.

There ya go mazzamouth. He took the words out of my mouth.

[BT_Blue]

I usually will be in C with the bases loaded. However, I have been known to move to B, especially if I am getting pinched by F6 playing up. I find that I get a better look of all the plays that can happen (and honestly, how many times do you see a pick at third that you cant get over to in anything but in LL).

However, with that being said. In SoCal and Im pretty sure its the same here in Portland. You are expected to be in C with the bases loaded and can get marked down in an evaluation if you are not. So guess where I stand.

[mazzamouth]

why would you be in B with bases loaded? you should be in the "C" position...

this isnt a bad position and when you use the "lateral drift" to move to look at the double play, it will set you up for a great position to look at the back end of a double play.

I will just say my post again... Move your behind on the field.. it takes 5 steps in "B" to correctly move into position for a look at a DB play.. it takes 7 steps.. if you can't move 2 more steps.. well then....LOL I call some games with some really fast players and have not had a problem moving over from "C" with bases loaded to get a good look for the double play.

BTW im not pissed off your trying to start a e argument with any one.;)

[carolinablue]

I agree, hustling is the # 1 priority for any umpire regardless of what position your in. The point I was trying to make earlier is that if you had a crystal ball and could see the next play prior to to it happening I would say you would end up in B pos. many more times than C. Of course we can't do that so what ever works for the individual is OK. You are going to have to hustle no matter where you are at so why not try to steal a couple of steps when you can.

[mazzamouth]

I agree, hustling is the # 1 priority for any umpire regardless of what position your in. The point I was trying to make earlier is that if you had a crystal ball and could see the next play prior to to it happening I would say you would end up in B pos. many more times than C. Of course we can't do that so what ever works for the individual is OK. You are going to have to hustle no matter where you are at so why not try to steal a couple of steps when you can.

that is baseball it's a surprise.. you will never know what is going to happen. But there are book's on mechanics that have been taught, for yrs on where to stand, and they came up with these for a reason.. over there yrs they ( the higher powers) have seen these plays happen, and have felt these are the best spots to stand during certain plays.

Edited February 20, 2010 by mazzamouth

[scobes7]

We are taught with bases loaded to be in the B position. Only time I am in C position is if there is an R2

[mazzamouth]

We are taught with bases loaded to be in the B position. Only time I am in C position is if there is an R2

I'm a firm believer in do what your pay check can afford.. or do what the guy who is paying you wants you to do.

[BT_Blue]

I'm a firm believer in do what your pay check can afford.. or do what the guy who is paying you wants you to do.

Oddly enough, I think I said exactly that. Just a little more long winded. Do what the powers that be want you do to do.

[mstaylor]

I teach B but tell the guys it is a personal preference thing and if you feel better in C go there. To me the next most likely play will want you in B so I start there. I have no problem getting there if I am in C but if I can save three or four steps, why not. I understand completely doing what your trainer says do but since I am the trainer I can do what I want.

My question to some that are in the assoc wants it that way crowd, next time you get dinged for being in the wrong place ask why. Tell the evaluator that you understand that he wants you in C but why, what advantage is there?

[mazzamouth]

I teach B but tell the guys it is a personal preference thing and if you feel better in C go there. To me the next most likely play will want you in B so I start there. I have no problem getting there if I am in C but if I can save three or four steps, why not. I understand completely doing what your trainer says do but since I am the trainer I can do what I want.

My question to some that are in the assoc wants it that way crowd, next time you get dinged for being in the wrong place ask why. Tell the evaluator that you understand that he wants you in C but why, what advantage is there?

I still don't see the advantage in "B"....

[UmpTTS43]

The reason for C with bases loaded is that there is a higher likelyhood of a play being made at 3rd. Pickoff by F1 or snap throw by F2. Play on R3, possible advancement of R2, if the pitch gets away from F2. There is no threat of R1 stealing with the bases loaded. Pickoff attemps of R1 R2 are rare.

That is why, with R1 R3, B is the recommended starting position. The more likely plays are going to be R1 stealing or the pickoff of R1. Although pickoff attempts can happen on R3, it is not as often as on R1. You will have a better angle/view on a play at 2nd with R1 stealing almost always. You will ALWAYS have a better angle/view when there is a true throw.

With pickoff throws either by F1 or F2, you want to be as close as possible, getting the best angle possible. Once the ball is batted, you are expected to get into any position needed for the call.

In the two man system, starting positions are based on the likelyhood of a play being made without the ball being batted, not where the more likely plays will be when the ball is batted. Again, once the ball is batted, you are able to get angle/distance due to the difference of time you have to react.

I tend to use this philosophy when explaining "why." At least I have a method to my madness.

[NovaScotiaBlue]

To all those who feel being in B is proper I think we will have to leave it at that and agree to disagree. I just wonder why BOTH Pro schools teach you to be in C in these situations.?

[Ump29]

To all those who feel being in B is proper I think we will have to leave it at that and agree to disagree. I just wonder why BOTH Pro schools teach you to be in C in these situations.?

... and also Baseball Canada (for all us Canucks).

[zm1283]

The reason for C with bases loaded is that there is a higher likelyhood of a play being made at 3rd. Pickoff by F1 or snap throw by F2. Play on R3, possible advancement of R2, if the pitch gets away from F2. There is no threat of R1 stealing with the bases loaded. Pickoff attemps of R1 R2 are rare.

That is why, with R1 R3, B is the recommended starting position. The more likely plays are going to be R1 stealing or the pickoff of R1. Although pickoff attempts can happen on R3, it is not as often as on R1. You will have a better angle/view on a play at 2nd with R1 stealing almost always. You will ALWAYS have a better angle/view when there is a true throw.

With pickoff throws either by F1 or F2, you want to be as close as possible, getting the best angle possible. Once the ball is batted, you are expected to get into any position needed for the call.

In the two man system, starting positions are based on the likelyhood of a play being made without the ball being batted, not where the more likely plays will be when the ball is batted. Again, once the ball is batted, you are able to get angle/distance due to the difference of time you have to react.

I tend to use this philosophy when explaining "why." At least I have a method to my madness.

What levels are you doing where F1 picks to 3B with the bases loaded? That NEVER happens at anything above freshman ball.

[Mr Umpire]

What levels are you doing where F1 picks to 3B with the bases loaded? That NEVER happens at anything above freshman ball.

I wouldn't say "never" and F2's do it quite often, even with bases loaded. It may not happen in the pros but it happens at Varsity level and college games. At least, until they throw one in LF and the coach chews them for throwing it in the first place.

[arbiter22]

Pro schools teach that with R1, R3, BU is in the "B" position.

correct

[UmpTTS43]

What levels are you doing where F1 picks to 3B with the bases loaded? That NEVER happens at anything above freshman ball.

Never say never. It can and does happen. Witnessed it, had to call it. FWIW, it was a level higher than freshman ball. Good thing I was in C to call it because it was very close and I was able to sell the call. Coach discussed my judgement versus positioning. Had I been in B, I'm positive positioning would have come up.

[zm1283]

I wouldn't say "never" and F2's do it quite often, even with bases loaded. It may not happen in the pros but it happens at Varsity level and college games. At least, until they throw one in LF and the coach chews them for throwing it in the first place.

I wasn't talking about F2, I was talking about F1. I know F2's pick to third quite often, but F1 doing it with the bases loaded is quite rare.

[PeteBooth]

When there are runners on 1st and 3rd, where does the base umpire position himself? In B or C position

?

Whenever you have a question regarding positioning the REAL answer is:

Check with your particular umpire association that you belong to.

As you can see from the responses some associations want the BU in C and some want you in B . Each umpire association has their own nuances and as they say "in Rome do as the Romans do".

FWIW the FED mechanic with R1/R3 is the B position.

In addition what type of ball are you calling?

RE: IMO it makes a big difference.

If you are dealing with youth or low calibur ball ala LL Jr.'s or 13/14 yr. old rec ball and the like, it makes more sense to be in C because at that level they rarely if ever throw down to second if R1 steals (for fear of R3 scoring so you do not have to worry about the steal as much) and DP's are almost non existent (so you do not have to worry about the banger at first base). Also, in low calibur ball there is a greater chance of a play at third base (at low levels they play that "dancing" game) then you would see doing high calibur ball such as Legion .

In Summary: Check with your umpire association. If you do not belong to one and are doing low type calibur ball then I recommend the C position.

Pete Booth

[POLOGREEN]

We are being told to go to the C position.

[Mr Umpire]

I wasn't talking about F2, I was talking about F1. I know F2's pick to third quite often, but F1 doing it with the bases loaded is quite rare.

Does it matter if it comes from F1 or F2? It is going to the same place only from a different position. The direction is the same and the umpire is still out of position for the play at 3B. When he would be 2 steps closer and in a better position to see the play by being in "C".

Also, F1's still do it. It may be rare but it happens and the BU should be in the best position possible to see the play.