Plate stance

[Kyle_Stevens]

I really get it from my whole family. They think it is funny when dad is calling strikes to himself!

[strike3scott]

Your stance looks very good and head height looks fine. To answer a question you asked some time ago - in the scissors, I have my hands on my knees. The hands behind the back thing is bush. I lock in on my knees and my head height has very little variation (all have some no matter what they say) but the main thing is getting locked in whether hands on knees or other mechanism. While we are talking about stances, I have used, and still use at times, the knee. I find I can see short kids' zones better some times - I'm 6'3.

[mstaylor]

Scott, I also scissor and I used put my hands on my knee but always feared for my hands. I was taught in one clinic to put my hands on the side of my legs. If they get hit they give that way.

[blindumpire99]

I use the GD stance...I discovered it about 7 yrs ago before I even knew it actually had a name/moniker...

[BrianC14]

I have always worked from the box. For me, this has always felt natural. I get in the slot, squat at the knees until my eyes are at the top of the strike zone, my head is high and inside corner of the zone. I put my hands on the under side of my thighs and try to tuck my elbows to my torso. This is my stance.

I see guys on tv, had partners, or watch games where I see guys in the scissors, or have a modified box, or have their hands on their knees.

The ones I see on tv look so comfortable in their stance. I will try a different stance at home in the mirror but feel very uncomfortable. Once I get to a game, I am more worried about calling balls and strikes rather than try a new stance.

What do you all use, feel comfortable with, have tried and not liked, and for what reasons?

My aching knees wouldn't possibly allow me to use the scissors, and even if I could use it, I don't like the scissor for the simple reason of balance.

I use the heel-toe stance, and always have.

[mstaylor]

My aching knees wouldn't possibly allow me to use the scissors, and even if I could use it, I don't like the scissor for the simple reason of balance.

I use the heel-toe stance, and always have.

Funny you mention your knees as a reason not to scissor. That is exactly why I stay with it. Bases absolutely kill me because it is the same as boxing a game. The scissor stance seems to make my knees less tired. I will allow that it is the least stable of all the stances but I have done it for so many years it is rarely a problem. I started because I wasn't getting a good look at LH batters. That was about 15 or 18 years ago.

[BrianC14]

Funny you mention your knees as a reason not to scissor. That is exactly why I stay with it. Bases absolutely kill me because it is the same as boxing a game. The scissor stance seems to make my knees less tired. I will allow that it is the least stable of all the stances but I have done it for so many years it is rarely a problem. I started because I wasn't getting a good look at LH batters. That was about 15 or 18 years ago.

We could be talking about different types of knee problems, of course... for me, the back of the kneecap area just won't put up with the strain that comes when the forward leg is supporting most of my body weight.

When I first started into umpiring (1992/1993), the local instructors refused to even teach the scissor - they wanted everyone in the box stance.

If the usual cycles play out, I figure that in 10 years, they'll start teaching it again. Heh!

My (learned / instructed) method of getting a better look on LH batters is to move slightly more up into the slot, especially if being squeezed. Honestly, though, when using the heel-toe stance, I don't see how a left hand batter is any different than a RH batter - it's all about where you position yourself to get the optimum view of the outside corner. Maybe it's one of those left brain / right brain things? I don't know.... :mad:

[Jeff C.]

I haven't had any formal training yet, but I have read alot on this site and others about stances. I use the same type of stance that you use, Kyle. Seems natural to me. I've always felt comfortable in this stance. I recently got to call pitches for a young man attempting to walk on @ Central Michigan. That was a blast! Both he and his coach felt I missed about two pitches out of about 100. I did miss one badly on the outside corner because I was too far in the slot. I know that's not pertinent to your thread, I just wanted to share.

[Kyle_Stevens]

Since I have changed my stance I have moved up into the slot more. Like Stockbridge said, maybe too far. Particularly with left handed batters. For some reason I am not getting completely comfortable on that side. Also, the outside corner pitches look outside coming through the zone but when the ball hits the catchers glove, the ball looks on the plate.

Any suggestions?

[mstaylor]

I have found I prefer to be a little further back than has been taught in years past. I believe you are using a heel/toe stance. No matter what you are using you need your upper body square to the pitcher. Try backing up slightly and you may need to move up. See if it's possible to post a picture of you in your stance, then we can give you better advice.

[ump81]

When I went to Jim Evans school in 2001 I was eager to show him my plate stance which I thought was the box, he took one look and said I used the "taint" stance. He said "it taint the scissors and it taint the box". Needless to say they stripped me down to the basics and I work the Jim Evans Box stance now exclusively for every game from youth to college. Head height is chin just above catchers head, head view is the "slot" between batter and catcher just off his inside shoulder, hands are: left tucked in fist across the lower abdomen forearm parallel to ground, right is locked above the shin guard resting on my thigh. Of course I have been hit over the years in my arms and hand but have never suffered a break. The forearm is the strongest part of the hand, wrist, fingers assembly so it is reasonable to take a hit there. I switch the arms around for a left handed batter, tucking the right below my chest protector, and the left then locks on my upper thigh. Any stance is a compromise of safety, sight picture, angle, and "locking" ability. The National League guys have documented proof of the neck and back repetitive injury caused over the years of scissors work. A few even went back to the Evans school to re-learn a "slot" or box set up. Over many plate years the neck and upper spine became compressed and many have had sugery in their retirement years. As an instructor and evaluator in my local association I always stress and teach the box. Thats my two cents in the stance dicussion.

[mstaylor]

I am a trainer in my group and although I am a scissor guy, I teach the box or GD stance, depends on the ump. I will certainly agree that the scissors are the least stable and perhaps hard on your back, but it's the only one that I can use on a regular basis. If I get a guy in my clinic that does scissor, I explain the downsides but if he wants to keep it I will teach him or correct him in the proper use.

[Umpire6]

I have used the scissors, box, slot, and now the Gerry Davis plate stance:home: and I would recommend everyone switch to it. The stability, the consistency of the position itself lends to a more consistent strike zone.

[okump96]

I have used the scissors, box, slot, and now the Gerry Davis plate stance:home: and I would recommend everyone switch to it. The stability, the consistency of the position itself lends to a more consistent strike zone.

exactly the reasons i went to it myself.

[Majordave]

In case you were wondering, GD stands for Gerry Davis although from what I have heard and seen about knee and scissors stances over the long run they should be called the "GD" stance.

I went to Tony Thompson's International Camp this last fall. I got video from 4 cage work sessions, two with Ed Rapuano, one with Paul Nauert and one with AAA-International League Umpire Brian Kennedy.

I got all positive commentary on my stance, view of the zone, head height, consistency, timing, etc. Not one of them suggested any changes to anything I did with stance. Brian suggested that I not glance down with my eyes at the plate before pitch delivery so as to not take my eyes of pitcher with the ball. Ed actually said that it was a good thing if I didn't move my head when I looked.

They all three corrected and re-corrected plenty of other guys. I did not get anything but complements and was used as an example for consistency, view of the plate, timing. Ed did say I should relax more after the pitch is called. I like to stand with my hands on my hips (authoritarian stance) while waiting for pitcher to come set/begin delivery. He wanted me to just back up and stand relaxed and look around with no runners on base. I think I was just nervous while in the cage with the tape running but I remembered what he said and was able to relax during my first scrimmage plate work this spring and the last couple of scrimmages I worked after returning from the camp.

I will watch the tape again tomorrow morning or tonight before my first game to get psyched and focused.

I noticed that the Carl Childess Baseball Library link over on officiating.com is not working and did not work this past weekend. I have copied and saved the Gerry Davis Stance articles so if anyone wants them, PM me with a request and your e-mail address and I can send to you as MSWord e-mail attachments.

Again, my new mantra: Let's all get better together.

[mstaylor]

I met Brian as a cage instructor when he was in A ball. He is very good at teaching.

[Umpire in Chief]

I'm looking forward to it this October.

[rth54]

Does anybody have the articles that Majordave sent out? ? Could you send them to me?

If so, PM me and I will send you my e-mail address.

Thanks... Nublue

[rth54]

What is the best option for getting good instruction in the GD system?

Saving the back... locked in..consistency..... sounds good to me.

[Umpire in Chief]

What is the best option for getting good instruction in the GD system?

Saving the back... locked in..consistency..... sounds good to me.

I don't want to bust your bubble since your just getting into it, but most associations I've heard of frown on the GD for rookies then more or less look the other way when vets do it. Your association will probably preach the Box or the slot. Which after 6 years I only really learned the difference at the International Umpires Camp this past year. I'd always used the terms interchangeably. But Jerry Crawford put me in my place. And I have it on video just in case I ever forget.:)

[rth54]

Thanks for the heads-up... I would still like to learn the system. I am interested in exploring all the possibilities so that I can identify what will work best for me. Never hurts to learn something.

[Umpire in Chief]

It's good to experiment and change things up here and there. Playing with your stance is the best way to figure out what does and doesn't work or feel right to you.

[umpstu]

I use the GD stance...I discovered it about 7 yrs ago before I even knew it actually had a name/moniker...

I have also been using it for wuite a few years and never knew it was called the GD stance until lately. All I know is that it is locked in and extremely comfortable. And if you get hit what does it matter how you stand. Just don't rub it.

[BT_Blue]

But Jerry Crawford put me in my place. And I have it on video just in case I ever forget.

OOOOHHHH!!!! This has got to be posted somewhere... Come one Warren, give it to us!

[spiritump]

you should not put your hands behind your back--you look like a person who is does not want to get hurt instead of a umpire who calls balls and strikes. Look the part is more than half the battle