Check swing appeal to the 'wrong' umpire

[Dragon29]

OK - This happened to me earlier this season and I'm wondering how badly I butchered it.

LL All-Star 10-11 Championship Game - I'm U1 working 3-man. Inning & Outs don't matter (nor do I really recall other than it was pretty late in the game) No runners on so I'm in 'A'; U3's in 'C' - LH batter in the box.

Pitch comes in; batter check his swing - PU appeals . . . to me!

Now, to set this up, this was probably the 3rd or 4th check swing appeal during the game, all of the previous ones were on RH batters and he came to me on each of them.

Now, I know the drill on check swing appeals - throw out all the myths about the batter's hands or the bat-head crossing . . etc. It's whether or not I feel they offered at the pitch or not? - simple as that - make your call.

But, I was so thrown by him coming to me in 'A' on a LH batter when U3 was in 'C' that I locked up for a moment and then pointed to U3, who then made the call as PU was re-directing his point to him.

I felt really odd doing it - Half of me thought I should have just made the ruling; the other half of me is thought is he coming to me for?

When we discussed it after the game, the PU just apologized, said he had a momentary brain lock and we moved on.

First, has this ever happened to any of you?

Second, whether it has or not, how would you handle it (& by extension, any criticism of or help on how I handled it)

[BrianC14]

OK - This happened to me earlier this season and I'm wondering how badly I butchered it.

LL All-Star 10-11 Championship Game - I'm U1 working 3-man. Inning & Outs don't matter (nor do I really recall other than it was pretty late in the game) No runners on so I'm in 'A'; U3's in 'C' - LH batter in the box.

Pitch comes in; batter check his swing - PU appeals . . . to me!

Now, to set this up, this was probably the 3rd or 4th check swing appeal during the game, all of the previous ones were on RH batters and he came to me on each of them.

Now, I know the drill on check swing appeals - throw out all the myths about the batter's hands or the bat-head crossing . . etc. It's whether or not I feel they offered at the pitch or not? - simple as that - make your call.

But, I was so thrown by him coming to me in 'A' on a LH batter when U3 was in 'C' that I locked up for a moment and then pointed to U3, who then made the call as PU was re-directing his point to him.

I felt really odd doing it - Half of me thought I should have just made the ruling; the other half of me is thought is he coming to me for?

When we discussed it after the game, the PU just apologized, said he had a momentary brain lock and we moved on.

First, has this ever happened to any of you?

Second, whether it has or not, how would you handle it (& by extension, any criticism of or help on how I handled it)

I'd say you corrected the UIC mistake as best you could.

And hopefully, with no runners on, U3 was in D, not C. ;)

[mstaylor]

Brian beat me to the response.

[Umpire in Chief]

We had this same thing happen here in our area in one of the district tournaments. There was a lot of talk about it on HSBaseballweb. PU appealed a swing to the wrong guy the guy he appealed to was trying to get the PU to go to the other ump, by knodding over to the other ump and he was acoused of knodding off in the game.

[BrianC14]

We had this same thing happen here in our area in one of the district tournaments. There was a lot of talk about it on HSBaseballweb. PU appealed a swing to the wrong guy the guy he appealed to was trying to get the PU to go to the other ump, by knodding over to the other ump and he was acoused of knodding off in the game.

I suppose one quick way to get this 'corrected', is for U1 to say something back to UIC, something like, "Check three!" - so that that UIC gets the idea...

Then make sure UIC buys the first round after the game. Who knows? If you drop enough subtle hints, you might get him buying ALL the rounds - or at least enough to get you to agree not to share the story at the next association meeting. :agasp_:

[Stan W.]

It happens.........most times its because the umpires involved are used to only working in 2 man crews where all your appeals are going down to first......then tourney season comes around and you know have 3-4 guys out there.....

I think you handled it fine....HPU probably got a bit embarassed, but he will get over it.....

[Dragon29]

It happens.........most times its because the umpires involved are used to only working in 2 man crews where all your appeals are going down to first......then tourney season comes around and you know have 3-4 guys out there.....

I'm sure that was it

& yes, I meant 'D', not 'C' - Another brain lock

Thanks

[critter]

i am also worried about doing this but we pretty much got to umpires working together.

[Dragon29]

critter,

Don't get me wrong; when you're working 2-man (which is what I think you were trying to say) the PU is going to come to the only guy he's got out there - so LH, RH, 'A', 'B' or 'C' you make the call.

The situation I posted was a bit different.

[critter]

critter,

Don't get me wrong; when you're working 2-man (which is what I think you were trying to say) the PU is going to come to the only guy he's got out there - so LH, RH, 'A', 'B' or 'C' you make the call.

The situation I posted was a bit different.

matter what position there in. what i mean if i a plate ump and i ask for appeal and it on the wrong side of the batter. lol

I had a calripken minor game and coach ask me to appeal i know he did not go and my bu was over at second base he got the same view as me. I told him i was not going to ask.

i told the bu i would of ask if he was down first base line.

[Stan W.]

matter what position there in. what i mean if i a plate ump and i ask for appeal and it on the wrong side of the batter. lol

I had a calripken minor game and coach ask me to appeal i know he did not go and my bu was over at second base he got the same view as me. I told him i was not going to ask.

i told the bu i would of ask if he was down first base line.

If you are asked to go to your partner.....go....no matter where he is on the field.......whats the worst thing that can happen?.....a strike is called?....

Remember only in HS ball under Fed rules are you allowed to decline to ask your partner......NCAA or any OBR based league (youth ball) the rule says the appeal MUST be granted........

If someone tells you they can not determine if the batter went or not from all the umpire positions, I would think they are wrong.....if I can tell an attempt, Ill call strike, if I cant then I'll signal no.........

Either way, if you ask me (regardless of my position a-b or c) you will get an answer.......

Edited September 1, 2009 by Stan W.

[Umpire in Chief]

If you are asked to go to your partner.....go....no matter where he is on the field.......whats the worst thing that can happen?.....a strike is called?....

If someone tells you they can not determine if the batter went or not from all the umpire positions, I would think they are wrong.....if I can tell an attempt, Ill call strike, if I cant then I'll signal no.........

Either way, if you ask me (regardless of my position a-b or c) you will get an answer.......

Bingo!

[Dragon29]

critter,

If you're not going to go for an appeal (especially if it's a coach who's asking for it) that's fine - but, don't deny an appeal because your BU is in 'B' (or 'C' for that matter) Making a ruling on a check swing appeal is part of the BU's responsibility no matter where he is on the field.

[critter]

critter,

If you're not going to go for an appeal (especially if it's a coach who's asking for it) that's fine - but, don't deny an appeal because your BU is in 'B' (or 'C' for that matter) Making a ruling on a check swing appeal is part of the BU's responsibility no matter where he is on the field.

The point is he has the same view as me so he not going to get the view coach was going. and i was not going to go to him in the first place.

this calripken minor field the umpire was a volunteer parent. i been ask once in the c position in br but not all umpires will make or ask to appeal if you in those positions.

[Stan W.]

The point is he has the same view as me so he not going to get the view coach was going. and i was not going to go to him in the first place.

understood your thoughts.....but again....unless you are doing a game under NFHS rules.(High School)......the rules say you MUST go to your partner.....

OBR rule 9.02c cmt 2

If the catcher or manager asks the UIC to get help on a half swing the appeal must be granted. The field umpires decision shall prevail....

again, what is the worst thing that could happen?..........you get another strike....and you have not ignored a rule....

[critter]

If you are asked to go to your partner.....go....no matter where he is on the field.......whats the worst thing that can happen?.....a strike is called?....

Remember only in HS ball under Fed rules are you allowed to decline to ask your partner......NCAA or any OBR based league (youth ball) the rule says the appeal MUST be granted........

If someone tells you they can not determine if the batter went or not from all the umpire positions, I would think they are wrong.....if I can tell an attempt, Ill call strike, if I cant then I'll signal no.........

Either way, if you ask me (regardless of my position a-b or c) you will get an answer.......

wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong.

9.02 below c.

"the Manger or catcher my request the plate umpire to ask his parner for help on a half swing when the plate umpire calls the pitch a ball, but not when the pitch is called a strike. The manger my not complain that the umpire made improper call but only that he did not ask his parnter for help.

there a reason this rule in here.

[critter]

understood your thoughts.....but again....unless you are doing a game under NFHS rules.(High School)......the rules say you MUST go to your partner.....

OBR rule 9.02c cmt 2

If the catcher or manager asks the UIC to get help on a half swing the appeal must be granted. The field umpires decision shall prevail....

again, what is the worst thing that could happen?..........you get another strike....and you have not ignored a rule....

no where does it say you "must go to the partner for help"

"the Manger or catcher my request the plate umpire to ask his parner for help on a half swing when the plate umpire calls the pitch a ball, but not when the pitch is called a strike. The manger my not complain that the umpire made improper call but only that he did not ask his parnter for help. "

If you can put me to the rule i am wrong but i got the rule book right here it does say he must ask for help. or atleast point me to the right number

Edited September 1, 2009 by critter

[UmpJM]

...

I had a calripken minor game and coach ask me to appeal i know he did not go and my bu was over at second base he got the same view as me. I told him i was not going to ask.

i told the bu i would of ask if he was down first base line.

critter,

Whether your partner is in A, B, or C, if the defense appeals a checked swing you have ruled a ball, just go to your partner.

It's a rule and only good can result.

Trust me.

JM

[mstaylor]

I ave started a new thread to take the two man portion out of the three man discussion. Any further answers should be posted there.

[Stan W.]

no where does it say you "must go to the partner for help"

"

Critter, you are at the right rule number, you just have to read a bit further down in the comment section....

see below..

Rule 9.02© Comment: The manager or the catcher may request the plate umpire to ask his partner for help on a half swing when the plate umpire calls the pitch a ball, but not when the pitch is called a strike. The manager may not complain that the umpire made an improper call, but only that he did not ask his partner for help. Field umpires must be alerted to the request from the plate umpire and quickly respond. Managers may not protest the call of a ball or strike on the pretense they are asking for information about a half swing.

Appeals on a half swing may be made only on the call of ball and when asked to appeal, the home plate umpire must refer to a base umpire for his judgment on the half swing. Should the base umpire call the pitch a strike, the strike call shall prevail.

Edited September 1, 2009 by Stan W.

[kylejt]

The point is he has the same view as me

Not unless he's standing behind the catcher he doesn't. That's crazy talk.

And why wouldn't you ask? Unless the manager is a PIA, I'll always look forward to another strike.

Critter, stop reading now.

Guys, is it just me?

[critter]

Not unless he's standing behind the catcher he doesn't. That's crazy talk.

And why wouldn't you ask? Unless the manager is a PIA, I'll always look forward to another strike.

Critter, stop reading now.

Guys, is it just me?

he can still be block by fielders so yes it a good point. umm i ask him after and he said he wouldn't of called it a swing. its not crazy talk another umpire told me that.

nah i am not going to step reading.

[HokieUmp]

he can still be block by fielders so yes it a good point. umm i ask him after and he said he wouldn't of called it a swing. its not crazy talk another umpire told me that.

I'm sorry - where is this other umpire at, and what fielder is in his way? It has sounded like you're talking about being in either B or C position, and other than some insanely wild follow-through by the pitcher, I'm still trying to figure out what fielder is getting in the way.

Look, take what's being said here, and learn from it. People have said it over and over that you HAVE to go. (Yes, I know there's the caveat about HS ball, but you've said you're not doing HS yet.) So go, and don't argue about it.

So what if the other umpire told you after the game that he wouldn't have called it a swing? It's a judgement call, and sometimes people see the effort two different ways. But ask him - you're not losing face to do so.

Whatever other umpire (the one in the last sentence) told you that sounds a little like he needs training as well.

[Aging_Arbiter]

Appeal to me! It's a STRIKE!