"Snunk in the outfield?"

[treedog24]

Ok, I am stealing from "another" site but can someone explain to me the above mention play. I understand that it's runners on 1&3 and R1 goes and stands out in short RF or RF (in the grass?) and as the offense you are giving up the R1 to score R3, now I have never seen this (of course now that I have said this I will more than likely see it) but how is this not an automatic out on R1 for Travesty of the game (we all agree that this is bush league, right?):P

[LMSANS]

According to the BRD, both the Fed and OBR have official interpretations saying this is legal.

[SNIPERBBB]

Nothing illegal about it but here is where "preventative officiating" can come into play.

[mstaylor]

It is perfectly legal, bush but legal. The travesty clause is used for one thing only and that is running the bases in reverse order to confuse the defense. It can not be used to stop behavior that some deem bad. This includes the Skunk in the Outfield, broken mirror play, bat wagging and slash hitting.

[therefump]

It is perfectly legal, bush but legal. The travesty clause is used for one thing only and that is running the bases in reverse order to confuse the defense. It can not be used to stop behavior that some deem bad. This includes the Skunk in the Outfield, broken mirror play, bat wagging and slash hitting.

Disagree with your interp of the Travesty rule. Several years ago I was doing a Jr. Legion game where the coach knew the game was over due to score. He put an unqualified pitcher in F1. They were all laughing and having a good ole time until I killed the game.:P

[Mr Umpire]

Disagree with your interp of the Travesty rule. Several years ago I was doing a Jr. Legion game where the coach knew the game was over due to score. He put an unqualified pitcher in F1. They were all laughing and having a good ole time until I killed the game.

That would be a safety issue but I would not have stopped the game. I would have them get another pitcher in or not given much effort on my part if they are not on theirs. And, it may be a ball game real quick before he knows it if he doesn't get a new one in there to make my life easier. But, that is a completely different issue and nothing to do with "Travesty of the game"(although it is and these foolish rats don't understand it).

But, this play is legal simply b/c the baseline isn't defined until there is a play being made. Once a play is being made on the runner, then he has established his line but even that can change with every turn he makes in a rundown.

Bush league, yes. Illegal, no. Although you may hate watching it, all you can do is watch it. But, there will be no benefit of doubt given on a play like this. Any close play resulting, more than likely will go against the offense.

[Umpire in Chief]

IMO Travesty of the game is a biggie, putting in a joke of a pitcher is harmless, so is skunk in the OF or anything else. You have to be making a mockery of the game or something egregious.

I remember reading on one of the other sites some time ago someone coming out to bat in a hula skirt-- someone verify/confirm this was the situation for me please---, and was EJ'd for travesty of the game which would be a correct application.

[catoblue]

We can't make up a rule because we don't like something. As Mike mentioned, the only rule that mentions "travesty of the game" is "7.08 (i)after he has acquired legal possession of a base, he runs the bases in reverse order for the purpose of confusing the defense or making a travesty of the game. The umpire shall immediately call "Time" and declare the runner out;"

While skunk in the outfield is bush, it is perfectly legal, and calling R1 out is making up your own rules.

The "unqualified pitcher" incident - again perfectly legal. In fact, Nick Swisher pitched for the Yankees this year Funny thing was, he ended up doing better than everyone else that took the mound during that game. If safety becomes a concern in that situation, then "TIME", tell DC that he needs to replace F1 - if refused, then Ejections to follow. There is no "travesty rule" to support calling the game.

And the Hula Skirt incident 1.11(a). Make the offending player remove it. If that doesn't happen, then EJ per 9.01(. Again, "travesty doesn't come into play here, since the situation does not involve a runner running the bases in reverse order - the only rule which mentions "travesty of the game".

Edited June 19, 2009 by catoblue

[Mr Umpire]

To add to cato, the "travesty of the game" was even brought into existence due to a player hitting a HR and running the bases in "reverse". It had nothing to do with confusing the defense. That part is for something like R1 acquires 2B but returns to 1B just to draw a throw for R3 to score after a pitch has been thrown to the next batter.

So, "travesty of the game" is for running the bases in "reverse" from HP and "running bases in reverse to confuse the defense" is for a runner going to a previous base after the pitcher takes the mound for the next pitch/play. If he does it on a continuous play, then it is legal b/c who is to say he is not returning b/c he missed it or thinks a fly ball was caught.

Applying it to this play or any other situation is not what it was intended for.

[MCLEOD36]

Tree.

Look at it as just adding another arrow to your quiver. When I first heard of a situation like that and it was posted, it was a deaf league and R1, ran at the pitcher to throw him off his game to commit a balk and let the runner from third score. I went round and round, saying bush etc....andthen the skunk in the outfield was diagrammed and I went oh OK, now I get it. In Miami, there is the proverbial "Miami Play", where the pitcher holds ball in glove and fakes a throw (after stepping off) say to second and fielders, infield and outfield dive around. It is priceless, when done right, but I have also seen umpires call a balk, just cause they thought it wasnt right. Similar to this, a nuance but not a travesty....

[treedog24]

Tree.

Look at it as just adding another arrow to your quiver. When I first heard of a situation like that and it was posted, it was a deaf league and R1, ran at the pitcher to throw him off his game to commit a balk and let the runner from third score. I went round and round, saying bush etc....andthen the skunk in the outfield was diagrammed and I went oh OK, now I get it. In Miami, there is the proverbial "Miami Play", where the pitcher holds ball in glove and fakes a throw (after stepping off) say to second and fielders, infield and outfield dive around. It is priceless, when done right, but I have also seen umpires call a balk, just cause they thought it wasnt right. Similar to this, a nuance but not a travesty....

I have seen the Miami play and I equate it to the old hidden ball trick, if done quickly and not held for half the day ok, other wise get the ball back to F1 and let go. I guess your right, if the Defense can do hidden ball tricks and "the Miami Play" either to first or second then I guess the Offense has to have it own way of doing things. :yippie:

[Umpire in Chief]

Here's the famous broken mirror play again...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87R1YMTpBxk

[MCLEOD36]

thank you Warren, that is the one that I didnt like, wasnt that a college team that was deaf? I just thought, that was a dirty play since he ran at the pitcher, but then again, the pitcher should have hit him square between the eyes with the ball.

I didnt mind the skunk in the outfield, but stay in the outfield.

[Ump Rube]

How exactly does one pronounce the word: snunk?

[mstaylor]

thank you Warren, that is the one that I didnt like, wasnt that a college team that was deaf? I just thought, that was a dirty play since he ran at the pitcher, but then again, the pitcher should have hit him square between the eyes with the ball.

I didnt mind the skunk in the outfield, but stay in the outfield.

Yes, it was Galudet College in Washington, DC. They are a deaf DIII school that plays in the same conference as our local DIII school. I have umpired them on several occasions, the most memorable being the first round of their conference play-offs and I had them by myself. Doing college by yourself is not fun, add to it having to slap your catcher on strikes and I was a mess.

[MCLEOD36]

But....

As always, nice job MS.... Talk about a unique dynamic... If I am in the neighborhood, you wont go solo.....

[Mr Umpire]

Count me in. I'll go on the field with you.

I'll get paid double right?

[treedog24]

Why is the coach for the team in black not in proper uniform. It looks like he just came from a golf outing. Isn't that highly illegal in NCAA?

[treedog24]

How exactly does one pronounce the word: snunk?

When your at work and the boss is at the door you don't get the chance to spell check.

[kwiggie]

Nothing illegal about it but here is where "preventative officiating" can come into play.

What type of "preventative officiating" could be used for what is apparently (although major league "Bush" IMO) a legal play according to FED and OBR?

[catoblue]

I got a kick out of all the comments where posters said that "he's out for going out of the baseline" LOL!