SH0102

Had an NCAA game this year, D2, two-man. One runner on (partner in B) Foul ball had been hit. Pitcher has new ball and is getting ready , and just as he gets on rubber dropped the ball. Offense starts yelling that’s a balk. I said loud and firm, “I have not put ball in play yet”, bc all 3 players were not in position. my partner, 20 year vet, clapped in approval. Different situation, same principle

Agree with most of this, but id caution about “never take your eye off ball”. If you follow throw all way to first, one, you won’t have a look at bag and if he kept foot on, and two and more importantly, your eyes will be moving at moment of most importance. Read the throw long enough to judge if it’s a true throw or one that’s gonna pull fielder off bag so you can get a read step (more advanced, worry about that later after this issue is resolved?) and then shift eyes to bag and be set and watch and LISTEN.

Hah, you sound like me. I got my first D1 non con and did four games in MLB Draft League, but also had a game where I was assigned wrong field and it was a 9u game, and I was like, well, ok…and it was fun!!! Fun to get back to the roots of game and I even called an obstruction, haha

Bc it’s a force, you only need to see it long enough to establish control (and touch of base). HPU has illegal slide. Get a good angle, see control, get a couple steps towards first and verbalize out while turning, get set, watch action at first. No need to give visual mechanic or anything crazy if it’s a standard force out.

I can’t find link right now but I saw a Perfect Game Umpire Eval video where a guy did same thing 2-3 times. it literally is all about timing. No disrespect to learning disorders but dyslexia impacts reading, have you ever eaten something really hot and screamed “*** COLD !” No. You are simply going too fast. Be abhorently slow next time (not all the time, just a couple times to force you to slow down). Literally watch the play happen and count to like 3, then make a call. Something else that’s REALLY helped me, and idk where I even learned it, but it made a 1000x better umpire on plays at first. You generally know when a close play is gonna happen, ball hit slow, fielder bobbles it, fast runner, etc…when I was trying to get better at close plays, I literally said to myself “sound, sound, sound” to force myself to focus on the sound of mitt and foot on bag, and then I’d take a second to process and replay “what sound came first?” If it was so close I honestly couldn’t tell, he’s out, but 98% of the time, you can tell. Had a pitch (I was BU in A), ball hit something twice, and it was FAST. Two sounds, one clink and one thud, within 0.02 seconds. From 100’ ft away, I could tell my partner with 100% certainty that the pitch hit bat before hand/wrist bc of sound, the ting came first. Just slow down , and then slow down some more. My 14 year old son umpires now and he was fast, told him to slow down, he still was too fast. He said “you’re kidding”. As someone else eluded to, you feel twice as slow you actually are. You feel like you waited 2 seconds, it was actually 1. and have fun

I was just at an NCAA camp a couple weeks ago and someone brought this up, and the instructor, who works Big 10 conference games said “I know you are told not to do it, but on any close pitch, what are you going to hear?” “Where was that at?” He said “I’m just avoiding the question” and followed up with “if I say ball down” and coach says “that’s not down”, I can just ignore it but at least I avoided a back and forth (ball, where was that, I had it down, that’s not down). he said “you can only get in trouble if it’s a horribly blown call” and if that’s the case, you’re in trouble with coach whether you said where it was or not. long story short, he gives location on a close pitch (within a ball width or so) to avoid a back and forth. I personally like this philosophy, and I definitely like it better than “selling a ball” with more emphasis on close ones. Just “ball away” as calm and confident as any other call. I think that will avoid a lot of conversation about strike zone

As I kind of eluded to Beerguy, newer umps prob have some tunnel vision bc they are so preoccupied with balls and strikes, safes and outs, that seeing things INT/OBS, missed bases, illegal slides, leaving early, is overwhelming, bc as you stated, it requires a calm, a sense of all your surroundings and what can happen and what to watch for (and yes, focus on when solo since you can’t see everything). the ump in your case example should have just said something like “I have to be 100% sure to make that call, and while they may have left early, due to being solo I can’t make that my primary focus and I’m not for-sure”. better than just saying “there’s no way”. when I do solo games on 90’ fields, I can get everything, touches, tag ups, int/Obs on any ball that doesn’t require a long fly where I can’t leave catch until batter has just passed first, but the two calls that are nearly impossible are steals of second bc I’ve got pitch, swing/check swing, batter INT to watch and the play is 127’ feet away. I can get one or two steps. The other is catcher backpacks to third. Runner is diving in a straight line away from me, again I have pitch and possible INT, and catcher is coming across me so I can’t clear him except to go towards first , again, maybe a step or two. I suppose every area is different but while leagues are always short around here, the leagues that are willing to pay 2 umpires usually get them, bc everyone wants to make same money for two man as they do solo. Around here solo pays $60 and two-man pays 50-55, no brainer. So with I’m sure a few exceptions, I don’t blame solo games on shortage much, it’s on league/teams what they are willing to pay

You aren’t wrong B. I’d just caution that every system has holes, and one-man is giving up touches and OBS and such whenever the ball is in flight. Never look away from Fair/Foul/Catch/No-Catch in order to grab a touch of a bag. once ball is down, you can snag a glance, and if he’s already around first, so be it.

Trying to look through rose colored glasses If this umpire was working solo and actually looks for OBS/INT, it is possible he isn't that new, you are correct, b/c most new umpires have too much going on in their heads to think about something so "obscure" (not ball/strike/safe/out)

This is an interesting post…on one hand, many brand new umpires have a lot to learn with rules and such, and often learn best (long term) by making mistakes. But generally brand new umpires don’t even know to look for OBS/INT, especially if they are solo. I am trying to think like a new umpire, he sees the obstruction, waits, sees the runner score, and then decides to put runner back two bases bc of something wrong the defense did? That makes no sense. Even if he doesn’t know the rule and thought it was a 2-base situation, that’s a situation where common sense says “I saw it but I’m not gonna call it bc that would punish the batter, so I’m gonna pretend I didn’t see it”

You are mistaking type 1 and type 2 obstruction. The rule you cited is for type 1, which is when a runner is obstructed while an attempted play/putout is being made on them, such as F3 blocking runner back into first on a pickoff . A runner being obstructed from touching a base (rounding first or third in your example) ,while the ball is elsewhere, is type 2 obstruction. You call obstruction , let the play play out, and have to judge where you are protecting the obstructed runner to. For example, batter hits routine single up middle and as rounding first, F3 is just standing in his way and runner has to move bc of him, or bumps into him. Was he going to second? No. As such, he doesn’t get second. You can protect him back into first, so CF can’t back pick him after he was obstructed, but he does not automatically get next base. To your question, had this happen with my 14 yo son as my base umpire. think of a runner stealing second, SS drops leg and blocks base while waiting for throw from catcher, preventing runner from getting to bag. My son had this, called obstruction, and awarded runner third. I called time, met with him, and said “what do you have”. He told me, and I said “what type is this?”, he said “type 1” (correct since play being made on him) and he said “he gets one extra base”. I said “correct, except where was runner when he was obstructed?” He had not yet obtained second, so his one base award was making him safe at second. had he stolen second, rounded it on a passed ball, and was obstructed in same way on backpick by catcher, now he gets third. hope that made sense

Interesting, I can see that now…goes back to importance of watching a pitcher during warmups, can go through these checklists in your mind.

Because this “cool” windup was used on such a big stage, it won’t be long before we start seeing it at lower levels. I too would appreciate a discussion on this topic. When watching, my 14 yo son (also umpires) said “isn’t that a balk?” I said (not being an OBR savant and balks being my point of emphasis for myself to improve), “not in MLB, but college and below yes”. Wasnt even sure if I was correct saying that sadly

Except up/down is determined by stance as they prepare to swing. So when I’m measured, I’m keeping my knees a little higher (less bent) and my torso a little lower, than my in-game stance.

A catch is determined by establishing control. Control can be shown in different ways, but voluntary release is not the sole manner (what coach is prob arguing). Momentum of catch being complete and change of direction by fielder while holding ball establishes control. Video of this would be better but from what is written, no way should that be a “drop”

I think most baseball purists don’t want an electronic strike zone. Most MLB umpires are above 90% on accuracy, so what’s the argument? The players play a game where 30% success rate gets you hundreds of millions, coaches take pitchers out during shutouts in WS and then lose the game and it’s acceptable bc “analytics” say it was correct. Also, as a former catcher, the art of receiving pitches and “framing” are pointless and devalues catchers with an electronic zone. Also, have you ever seen a pitch go through box so it’s technically a strike but catcher had to reach/dive for it, or took glove into dirt…if umpire calls that on their own, they are slayed by coaches and batter, but it technically crossed in zone. Those are all strikes with electronic zone, so people will start complaining about those next. Finally, unless batters wear something around the hollow of their knees and the MLB top of zone, it can never be perfect. As for its implementation, I believe it’s only a matter of time. I don’t see how it’s going to bring more fans to the game though, which is what MLB is concerned about

I’ll answer this as I have instructed my 14 year old son…assume you are always on camera, everywhere, bc between satellites, cameras, security cams, traffic cams, doorbell cameras, and cell phones, you usually are.

Should have been ball 4, but bc it was strike 3, most definitely should have been batters interference. Looks eerily similar to a college play this year. And this was an example (from a different thread) about, yes, coaches/players get a longer leash in the playoffs

If the base runners have not completed their obligations to touch the next base, the ball is most certainly not dead. You can walk off Diamond like the game is over (so as not to tip off an appeal would be valid), but the ball is not dead. Imagine scenario…bases loaded, tie game, bottom of 9th , ncaa game (where appeals must be done when live) Guy hits a gapper, everyone cheers and screams and mobs batter at first, including R1 who never touched second. Savvy outfielder sees this, chases ball down at fence, throws to SS standing at second. You telling me you’re gonna make them reset, next batter in box , pitcher on rubber, say play, step off, throw to second “because the ball was dead?” It was very much alive and R1 is out when they throw to second (barring all INF having left infield)

So asking probing questions is not working, so here’s straight to point: Touching the ball is nothing unless he is intentionally INT with a play. Rolling a ball to mound is not a play. Saying game over means nothing and does not make the ball dead, or the game over. If you want to be technical, the game is over when the last out is recorded or winning run is scored in bottom of last inning, AND defense has left the infield and plate area. You are correct there is no rule you must disappear like the wind when the last run scores, but if defense hasn’t appealed by time you and partner leave field together, I doubt they will later. Just end game like you would anyways, don’t coach runners, and if defense appeals in proper time, then make your call. Everything else is nothing

I should enhance my reading comprehension skills....when he said the catcher rolled the ball out, I assumed it was a walk, hit by pitch, etc, some play that ended with the catcher holding the ball. With the bases loaded in tie game, bottom of last inning, on a clean hit, there is rarely, if ever, a throw home for the catcher to have the ball to roll out.

Oh, and to answer your question in the title....they lose the right to appeal when the infielders have left fair territory and the catcher has left the "dirt circle" (plate area if there is no defined circle)

I am rusty on my FED rule on this, but in NCAA and OBR, only the batter-runner and R3 must fulfill their obligations to touch the next base, R1 and R2 do not have to. I am curious what others think because when I read what you said to the runners, that sounds an awful lot like "coaching", and if I was the defensive coach who wanted to appeal, I would be incredulous that I lost that chance because I heard you tell him to go touch the base. Now, if the runner asked me directly "do I need to touch the next base", I might give a smart-aleck answer like "even if you didn't, is it worth the risk to not run 20 more feet?" because in my mind, there is no reason not to go touch the base. You do it all game every game for years, so why do you need to go celebrate 1.4 seconds earlier? As for the ball, that is not a batted ball, so touching it means nothing unless he intentionally interfered with a play. The catcher rolling the ball on the ground and he kicks while running to celebrate is a whole lot of nothing.

I’m not sure what you are asking…if you are implying that the catchers glove became detached from his hand, then no, it is not an out (assuming the tag beat the touch of home). He did not maintain possession. This also assumes the runner did nothing intentional to detach the glove

This is a good point about loopholes...knowing the rule states "bullpen or dugout" helps if you have an issue. But again, our job is to manage the game, not inject ourselves into it. If some assistant coach dressed in a t-shirt and shorts is standing out of play with the parents, good for him, don't get involved with it. If they are standing outside the dugout, in play, where they could potentially cause problems, confusion, INT/OBS, then put them back in the dugout.