
Kali
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Seattle, Washington
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Northwest Baseball Umpires Association
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retired
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High School, Community College, Select, Legion, etc.
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So what I have gathered from all this is that, since R1 didn't intentionally interfere with the 1st baseman (he intentionally stayed on base but wasn't trying to touch the fielder). The correct call here should simply have been "Foul Ball" in an MLB game but R1 should have been called out in Fed. (6.01(a) comment in MLB and 8.4.2 situation B in Fed)
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If it didn't actually happen to me, I would have said this was one of those impossible test questions you see on the NFHS test every year. Freshman High School game. Bases loaded and no outs. The batter pops the ball up near first base. The 1st baseman comes in and stands in front of the base. We call, "Infield fly, if fair". The fielder takes a step back and then , just as the ball arrives, takes a second step back and collides with R1 standing on the base. At the same time, the fielder reaches out his mitt inches into foul territory, the ball hits the glove and drops to the ground. OK, so this is a foul ball and therefore, NOT an infield fly. So I call "Interference" on R1 but (and I know this is wrong) I call the batter out. It just seemed to me to be the right thing to do to negate the interference. I know the proper thing would have been to call R1 out and put the batter back in the box but... When we call out "Infield Fly", we are telling the runners that they will be safe if they stay on base. Had the ball hit R1, it would have been dead and he would NOT have been out. If the ball ends up foul, we are reneging on this at the last second with too little time for the runners to know they aren't safe on base anymore. So, maybe I'm just complaining that the rules aren't clear in this situation which is not a big deal but it got me thinking. If that ball had been a few inches over and had been fair. Would I have had two outs? One for the infield fly and one for interference or does the runner have the right to stay on base in this case? Or if he does jump off the base to let the fielder try to make the play, it seems he can be blocked from returning to the base by the fielder who now has the ball. Additionally, while the MLB rule indicates that the runner would be safe off the bag once the ball "has gone through the infielder", the NFHS rules do not make that exception and if the the infielder mishandled the ball and it touched the runner, he would be out. Anybody got opinions on this?
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During a recent "conversation" with a coach I ejected from a High School Playoff contest, I was called "The Worst Umpire in the World". I know that I shouldn't but that immediately got me thinking, really? In the whole world? Like, how many umpires has this guy seen? But now that I have the title, the rest of you can all relax. You may be awful but, I'm the worst. And yet, I was thinking about starting a club. The only membership requirement being that you have been dubbed "The Worst Umpire (I've ever seen), (We've ever had) (etc.) during a game sometime. We could have monthly meetings and sit around and share our worst umpiring techniques. Let me know if you qualify for membership. But, just so you know, I'd be the President of the club, cause I'm the worst there is.
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Jimurray, are you saying the umpire in the video did something wrong? I don't see what he ruled on the pitch. Hopefully, this player's substitute was awarded 1st. There are times when a batter, to avoid being hit, will throw his hands and the bat forward to try and throw his body backwards, which is what happened here. In which case, where the bat goes is of no importance. However, in most cases, things are a little more subtle. The plate umpire has a much better look at the last second reactions of the batter than does the field umpire. When they toss the call out to the field, I have to assume they didn't see any last instant pull back. I can only use the information I can get from 100+ feet away. So telling me to "just umpire" isn't helpful. I'm wondering if you have any personal guidelines that you're looking for?
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So, you're the field umpire and you see a pitch come it above the zone and the batter starts to swing at the pitch and then it hits them on the hands. Your partner starts to give them 1st but then comes to you for the check swing. What criteria should be used to determine your call? The position of the bat isn't simple since the pitch is up and in, the bat will likely remain up. I have always been told that if the batter is still moving toward the pitch when it hits him, then it's a dead ball strike. Is there another criteria I should be using?
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I've been umpiring for 27 years now and I saw something during a high school playoff game that made me stop and think. I was doing the plate in a three man crew. At the plate meeting, when going over the ground rules we said, anything over the yellow (meaning the yellow bar on top of the outfield fence) would be a home run. A fly ball was hit to center field. It hit the yellow bar and bounced high in the air and was then caught by the center fielder. This was not my catch/no-catch call and it was ruled a no-catch by U3. After the play, I called the crew together to ask about this and both of my partners agreed that hitting the wall was the same as a ball hitting the ground and that it could no longer be "caught". That's what we went with, but it sticks in my mind a bit. Where is that written? And if that's true, a ball hitting the top of the wall and bounding out of play would then not be a home run but a ground rule double? Does anyone know a place in either the MLB of NFHS rule books that spells this out?
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I think we miss the issue here. It isn't "was that Obstruction or not" as it clearly was. But how should the umpires have worked so they actually saw it? This was a bounding ball to the outfield so, after the ball skipped the first time, there was no longer a catch/no-catch responsibility from the Base Umpire. The ball wasn't close to the foul line, so there was no fair/foul on the Plate Umpire. At this point, both umpires have the responsibility to "glance at runners" . Plate takes R3 as he touches home and should also pick up the BR as he touches 1st since he knows the Base Umpire is on the ball coming in from left. The Base Umpire really has the responsibility to see R2 as he literally pushes his way past the short stop. You can't have your "eyes everlastingly on the ball" it's "chest to ball, glance at runners". As far as the award, it's really simpler than you guys are making it out. You call "Obstruction" when you see it, then watch the play. When you see how close it was at the plate, you award him home. If he was out by a mile, you don't. It's just that easy. I know you've all been taught to make up your minds how far to protect the runner the instant you see obstruction but there's really no reason to. Give yourself some time.
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You look out and see a pitcher standing with his pivot foot parallel to and against the front of the pitcher's plate. His free foot is in front of his pivot foot (well away from the plate). This looks like the Set position to me. But when he begins his pitch, he steps backwards with his free foot and then toward the plate with his free foot (two steps) as he delivers the ball. He obviously thinks he's pitching from the Wind-up. 6-1-2 states For the wind-up position ... The pitcher's non-pivot foot shall be in any position on or behind a line extending through the front edge of the pitcher's plate. He's obviously not in a proper Wind-up position by 6-1-2. In the past, I would stop him the first time I saw this and warn him that this was an illegal pitch even with no runners on, but, recently, I'm being told that, if this is his normal motion, that's OK. Is it OK? He starts every pitch from the same foot position so how do I tell if it's a pitch from the Wind-up or the Set? Remember that in the Wind-up that additional step is optional. (Yes, I know the MLB has inserted language that allows a pitcher to declare which position he is pitching from but, in MLB he can pick off from the Wind-up and, this ain't the MLB and that language hasn't transferred.)
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A couple things that haven't been handled here are: That a legal slide offers some protection for the runner in front of and on top of the bag. Contact made with the fielder is allowed if it isn't above the knee. A runner who is NOT sliding has no protected area. Also another issue that hasn't been handled here concerns an R1 that is out by a mile. That runner is still advancing standing up. If the fielder throws the ball and it hits R1, that's got to be interference, right? If the fielder starts to throw and pulls it down because he's afraid to hit R1, that's NOT interference, right? He has to throw or. at least attempt a throw, or there's nothing to interfere with. Or tell me how else this goes.
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My association has a big discussion on this every year because of a question on our State High School Baseball Test and it comes down to how to interpret the sub-sections of 8-4-2k (1) and (2). The story goes like this: 8-4-2k covers the responsibility that a runner has to avoid a batted ball. That responsibility is removed once the defense has touched the ball. Subsections (1) and (2) speak to how the rule changes when the batted ball is declared an infield fly. The infield fly rule exists to prevent the defense from getting a cheap double play by commiting an error. Under 8-4-2k(1) we are told that the players may hold on base, even if the infield fly touches them, even if there is a defensive player behind them that could have made a play on the ball. Instead of being called out, the player is safe and the ball is dead. This is all consistent with the idea behind the infield fly rule where we are saying that the runners may stay on their bases and are not forced off them. Under 8-4-2k(2) we find that the rule doesn't alter for players who wander off base. It remains the same penalty as in the main body of 8-4-2k. However, my state association takes this one step farther. They claim that under the conditions of 8-4-2k(1) and 8-4-2k(2) that the defense touching the baseball no longer removes the jeopardy of the runner. That the ball is still an infield fly and that the ball deflected into the runner carries the same penalty as a ball untouched. Consider the following situation: Bases Loaded with no outs. A high pop-up is hit that will land a few feet in front of 3rd base. When the 3rd baseman camps under the ball an infield fly is called by the umpires. But the 3rd baseman looses the ball in the sun and it hits him in the chest in fair territory and begins rolling toward the area behind home plate. R3 sees his chance and breaks for home. The catcher runs up to intercept the ball which he reaches just as R3 is passing several feet to his right. The catcher swipes at the ball with his glove knocking it into the R3's feet. Under my state's interpretation, this scenario would result in R3 being declared out for being touched by an infield fly while off base. To my mind, this violates the intent of the infield fly rule because it ends up giving a cheap double play to the defense. It also violates one of the basic tenets of baseball by allowing the defense to get an out by simply directing a baseball toward an offensive player.
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This is a common enough play. We usually see it at first base but we also see it at third. The fielder, expecting the ball, takes up a position on the inside corner of the bag. But the ball isn't thrown to them. If they fail to leave that point of the bag, the runner is free to take the base behind them but they are obstructed if they try to round the base and continue. The question then becomes how to apply rule 8-3-2 "The obstructed runner is awarded a minimum of one base beyond his position on base when the obstruction occurred." If the runner runs around the fielder, it becomes obvious that they have attained that base and are being obstructed as they are trying for the next base. However, if the runner attempts to hit the inside corner of the bag and runs into the fielder, it isn't as obvious. It appears that the runner is being obstructed BEFORE touching the base but, to me at least, it's the same play and should involve the same penalty. What say you all?
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To expand on this a bit. Both times this happened, the fielder looked at me and said, "Isn't he supposed to slide?". I didn't call interference in either case. My own thinking is that the runner, being too far away to slide then only needs to get out of the way of the throw. No throw, then there's nothing to interfere with. That's more in line with the OBR way of thinking than the Fed but that's what I've got at this point. I have looked through the rules and I can't find the term "in the vicinity" anywhere. I'd like to know the citation for that one.
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Kali joined the community
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There are times you just want to get lost in a baseball game and forget the world. On Easter morning in 2010, four young people got into a car. The driver was drunk and he plowed into a signpost, killing himself and two other boys. The two passengers killed were both friends of my son from early childhood, both good kids whose only mistake was getting into a car with a drunk. One of those boys was also a pretty good catcher in Little League and High School ball and I had umpired behind him many times. A few days later we held a memorial service for the catcher. His parents had both been active in our local Little League, both great people. We all told stories about the boy and what a wonderful young man he had become. It was one of the saddest things I have ever been to. I went home and was obviously pretty depressed. It wasn't even noon yet. I decided to go online and see if my local Little League district had any open spots looking for umpires. It turns out that there was a jamboree for the Minors starting in an hour. I signed up and suited up and went out to the park. I showed up at the park on a gorgeous spring day with about 50, 10 year-olds bouncing around two fields excited to play their first game of the season. When I showed up in uniform, the excitement went up another notch. It appears, they'd never had an umpire in uniform for a game before. A very relieved mom was so happy to see me show up. They had just started to strap the umpire gear on her and now she was off the hook. As I walked toward the field, a young player came racing up to me about as excited as he could be. "Mr. Umpire, Mr. Umpire sir, can I ask you a question?" I said, "Sure, what's on your mind?" He says, "In this league, can we charge the mound?" I don't really remember what I said. I think I said, "I don't really think you can do that in any league." or something lame like that. I just remember thinking, "this is why I do this..."
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