ALStripes17

Enforce the balk bc R3 didn't advance safely. Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

We don't care about this rule with 2B... Because we can feint to 2B. In your mentioned scenario, there is a runner at 2B, which makes it nearly impossible to balk to 2B. Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

Yeah. Local rules most likely apply... No wide known ruleset (HS, NCAA, MLB) has an out for a batter slinging a bat like that... Unless it's deemed as interfering with the catcher (and he has to have a play on the ball to have that called) Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

Mavens post above answers your question Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

It's interpreted as a feint to 1B, which is rule 6-2-4a. The 'attempt to retire or drive back a runner' rule is 6-2-4b and has to do with feinting or throwing to an unoccupied base. The 'occupied' part of that rule has to do with the runners... Not the fielders. Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

Nit-picking, but the out at 1B on a BR is not a force by definition. It does look like a force and act like a force... Just doesn't fall under the definition of it as defined in the rulebook That's also why the rules explicitly have to state the 'out by the BR before reaching 1B' in the scoring rules. Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

In MLB rules, 3B is treated exactly like 1B. Under interpretation, a throw not towards the bag or to a fielder in the vicinity to make a play is a balk (when towards 1B or 3B). This move would be legal in FED and NCAA rules, as a feint to 3B is still allowed in those codes. Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

The Run does not count. The batter was the third out before safely reaching first base. Same as if the batter hit a ground ball to the infield and they threw him out at 1B for the 3rd out Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

No issues. I only mentioned something due to your identification as having previous officiating experience. We can always use more coaches with level heads and understanding! And also, I moonlight as a back judge during the fall... And if I were to ever throw a flag for roughing the passer, my crew would not only wave off the flag, but also take the time to escort me to my vehicle before the game continued. They would run without a BJ after that. Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

First: fast runner doesn't matter here. In all codes on this sort of play, the runners will a return to base occupied at TOP. The prescribed penalty is there to penalize the offense for interfering. Second: In a 2 man crew, if a throw is made to first on a DP, mechanics prescribe the INT at 2B as the PU's call. BU is turning with the throw to 1B and is less likely to see the back-end action of an INT at 2B. FWIW, I am not a fan of the 'The PU over-ruled the BU' comment. There are more things at play in a game and I expect a former umpire to know that even when umpires get-together, we don't overrule each other. We simply provide additional info for the calling umpire. I don't envision this play having an 'over-ruling' factor to it. Maybe a delayed call by the umpire who is prescribed to see it... Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

A clip of premiere officiating. I love referring people to that scenario for training and informational purposes. Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

"Natural batting stance" for HS rules. Not natural bunting stance. For NCAA and OBR: "as the batter prepares to swing" In my judgement, those don't change for a bunting stance. Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

For OBR, if the batter-runner has not reached first base when INT is called, then all runners return to TOP. The exception to this is an intervening play at the plate. Runners return in OBR in the aforementioned scenario. Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

I thought the same thing Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

On my first watch, the F2's initial set up is completely blocking access to the plate. The throw isn't taking him anywhere at that point. Didn't we have guidance on the F2's initial setup in NCAA this year? Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

That may be it. I see a bunch of posts on here with video links and some of them are 10+ minutes long asking about a specific play haha. Oh well... Good thought...

Request: can posters post the time of the video of what we're looking as it makes it easier for these Long YouTube videos

FIFY He could be a pinch runner in this situation. The rules allow for that if that's what the coach ultimately wants to do.

The Rangers manager has been quoted as questioning the timing of the runner crossing the plate.. not the rule.

From the picture, the runner has direct access to HP (runner's leg would touch HP before he got to the shin guard). No OBS. The criteria is- the fielder, without possession of the ball, hinders the runner or alters the play. Here I don't have F2 hindering or altering as there is direct access to the plate behind the F2's left knee. If F2 was more up the 3B line when receiving this throw, then I would have OBS more prominent in my mind as the play developed.

If there is no pitch, how can the batter advance? Why else would those Approved Rulings be in there? It's so runners can advance further than the one base award on a balk. There can be overthrows to bases and the balk is ignored if all runners advance (there is no BR because there is no pitch). That's what my cited AR provides for. Edit to add: I believe I understand the communication confusion. For purposes of the batter and his count, a balk is still 'acknowledged.' The purpose of my posts is that runners can continue to advance even if the batter doesn't reach 1B. We have approved rulings that allow only runners to advance and the penalty of the balk is ignored, because it would hurt the offense (it would bring runners back if they advanced further than the one base award).

New codification: Rule 6.02 Approved Ruling (just underneath the penalty you mentioned). That same approved ruling is just below the penalty you cited in the old codification.

If there's no pitch, then the 'batter' part of that caveat is ignored. So any overthrow here, we would keep the ball live and allow all runners to advance at their own risk while ignoring the balk (assuming all runners reached the next base safely). However, if the throw to F5 is caught by F5 immediately, then we should kill and enforce the balk. The delayed dead ball part of the rule is meant for overthrows and/or pitches that are put into play (non-exhaustive list).

The way this play is described, I would not consider this type 1 OBS. I'm not putting the OP in a similar category as a pickoff play or a rundown. It is much more similar to a run-of-the-mill type 2 OBS. I do agree that the play is dead once the play is made on the OBS runner, whenever that may be. I don't agree with calling out, then safe.

E4 ... Gotta get an out somehow on that one...