Texas Manny

Which is better: Motherload 29" or Motherload 29" v. 2.0?

Wow Jax! Hope you are alright after that cannon-fodder. Same to you Warren. That didn't sound like a pleasant night. Having a good catcher makes all the difference in the world. Having a poor one tests the limits of ones faith in the protective gear they have on. For the newer, just starting umpires, a friendly reminder: This is why it is so important not to flintch back there and allow your equipment to take the shot. Setting up squarely is also important so that your equipment if fully facing the incoming pitch. Turning away or flintching can result in unnecessary or worse injury. I'm glad that Warren and Jax were not seriously injured despite how nasty their injuries look and sound.

Just passing along what the manuals say. No offense meant to those whose verbalage may be a hair different, but offered as a basis for fundamental training.

From the Jim Evans Maximizing the Two Man Umpiring System, pg274, Section 12.33 Time Play. If a runner is approaching home plate attempting to score as a play is being made on a following runner for the third out, it is the plate umpire's responsibility to align the plate with the play on the following runner. If the play for the third out is occuring at first base, the plate umpire would align home plate with the play at first from the first base line extended 10-12 feet in foul territory. If the play for the third out is occurring at second base, the plate umpire would align home plate with the play at second from a position off the point of the plate 10-12 feet in foul territory. If the play for the third out is occurring at third base, the plate umpire would align the plate with the play at third form the third base line extended 10-12 feet in foul territory. Positioning at the plate: Run scores: Pointing at the plate twice, saying "That run scores! That run scores!", then turn around to the official scorer, point at him and say "Score that run!" No Run: Turn your back to home plate, face the official scorer and wave off your hands above your head, saying: "No run scores! No run scores!" The wave off must be given above your head so that it cannot be misinterpreted as a safe signal. From the Wendelstedt Umpire School Comprehensive Manual for the Two-Umpire System, pg 103, drawings, 105, reference situations pgs 117, 158, 194, 195, and 208. Same as the Jim Evans notations, except language for run scoring and no run. Run Scores for HW is: Pointing twice while saying: "Score that run! Score that run!", turning to the official scorer, pointing, saying:"That run scores!" No RUN for HW is: Turning back to home plate, facing official scorer, while waving hands over head, saying twice: "No Run! No Run!" If multiple runners are crossing the plate at approximately the same time, but only one run scored before the out was made, the plate umpire will hold up one finger to the press box and declare "One Run Scores!" *** End of citations. *** (Note verbalage differences between JE and HW) Now, since most amatuer leagues do not have an official scorer, I recommend doing the following: Run Scores: Do as above, pointing to the plate twice, then turn to home dugout first, point at manager, and say "Score that run!". Then turn to the visiting manager, and say "Score that run!" No run: Turn to the home dugout first, and wave off the run, saying to the home manager: "No run scores! No run scores". Then turn to the visiting manager, and do the same.

but 10 fingers and one d@#K! (sorry. couldnt resist - going for the laugh) Some, not I, may argue that point, in of itself.

County? Dang, that was out of state, call collect. I will call in the neighborhood because I fully understand the reasoning behind it, but that was clearly a "Safe! Safe! He's off the bag!", mercy out! However, we will soon hear how this debate is moot, from our resident most knowing, most powerful, King Smartass! (Private joke that makes him laugh)

I don't know about haydes freezing over, but one thing is for dang sure: WE BOTH DON'T LIKE INSTANT REPLAY! 1000%

Would you please give it up already? You already had one thread locked down with your stubbornness. Don't come over here and start this crap. The answers have already been given. R1 and R3 proper positioning is "B".

My thoughts exactly. I didn't see the play (in the neighborhood. I saw the HP call that was missed by GD) originally. It's tough to call it a miss by Davis. Technically it is, but not according to the way baseball's played. The runner didn't dispute the call. That was a miss as miss could be. There was a collision but no tag. Never. The collision pushed the glove hand and free hand away. Never touched the runner. It would have taken massive kahoannies to call "safe" with a collision like that, but he was safe. That's not to say that GD doesn't have 'em.

Fixed your post. ONE WAY, AND THE BEST WAY, is to rest your hands firmly on your knees, in a rock solid lock in mechanism. You forgot something..... This is an opinion and not a matter of fact. Different strokes for different folks. We're all built differently. Some can do the Box. Others Scissors. Some like the Gerry Davis. It's up the person. One stance is not better over the other. It's that you exercise proper mechanics, head height, and timing that counts. Of course it's an opinion, I never meant to insinuate other wise! I whole heatedly agree, do what is best for you, except touching the catcher. Not a problem Blue. It's all good.

I guess you think the above statement means one thing, I'm not sure what this is saying. Re read your own sentence/post. Double negatives are confusing. But you were clearer when you stated: MISQUOTED FROM #54. IF YOU ARE GOING TO QUOTE ME, MAKE SURE YOU HAVE THE SITUATION RIGHT. THIS QUOTE IS FROM BASES LOADED AND YOU WERE AT "B". STRIKE 1 ON YOU! Then you contradict that statement with: CONTEXT WRONGLY TAKEN FROM #59, BECAUSE WE WERE TALKING ABOUT TAKING STEPS ON BATTEED V. PICKOFF MOVES WHILE YOU WERE AT "C" WHEN YOU SHOULD BE AT "B". YOU MISQUOTED ME TO MAKE YOURSELF A WRONG ASSUMPTION. STRIKE 2! At least one of us is very confused. You're not going to claim that you posts were changed again, are you ? I started out saying that batted ball play at 1B was not a good reason to choose 'B' and you started an arguement about it. And with crappy grammar you agree/disagree with a point that I never was trying to make and then contradicted your own statements while trying to continue to argue. THEN YOU ARGUE AGAIN ON TWO MISTAKES YOU'VE MADE... STRIKE 3 - YOU'RE OUT! Then you drop this bomb: You are not a party to the Kerry truce agreement and do not enjoy any of its privileges. And this, sir, is no way to get on my Christmas card list. We're done. See the bold italics for responses...And NO, NO POSTS WERE EDITED AS YOU ACCUSED. Now you have totally come across as unapproachable. Maybe Jocko jumped on you because he saw this in you earlier. I give the benefit of the doubt. Please learn to read and ask questions before spouting off. Don't worry abou't the Christmas Cards. Save yourself the .43 cents. We're done? You're gone!

I feel that the only reason why you are putting your hand out is because you are setting way to early. Don't be quick to set back there. You will wear your leg muscles out quicker. It's one thing to look hungry to work out there, it's another to be overly aggressive.

Now you've had someone say it nicely to you and another bluntly. We're only trying to help make you a better umpire. Learn from experience. There isn't a day that goes by that I do not learn something, even if it is from Jock-O.

on instant replay.... Click the three sportcasters in the box.

The "pro school" has the base ump in C, but you think that's wrong. You can buy into the current philosophy or not, I don't give a flip. Whatever reasoning is used to justify the current choice is the correct one "currently". And when the choice changes again, the reasoning used to justify that choice will be the correct one, "at that time". All I know is that when Murphy comes to bite us on the arse, he's just checks on the current positioning. No "pro school" has R1 and R3 with the umpire at C, but suit yourself. I can see now that you can't be shown or told anything.

Click the three cowboys in the box to open a new window.

Ricka56, I don't know how old you are, but please take this with the understanding that I am sharing from my heart and long time experience, and my only motive is to help make you a better umpire. Learn the difference between good advice and wisdom, and that which you can discard. I feel that many here, including myself, have given you some great wisdom to keep your ears, mind, and heart out of the stands, and on the field. Parents will be parents. Spectators, spectators. All you will do is heap upon yourself more trouble in the end when you engage the fans either directly, or indirectly through the managers. They are not your concern, unless directly impacting the playing field. Although kiddie parents can be ruthless, it won't get easier in adult games where spectators are usually larger in number, and their vocabulary and hearts have hardened. Learn now to get your attention on the field and not give a rats ass what the spectators say or think, and you'll become a better umpire. There is a right way and a wrong way to address continual kiddie spectator issue, and that is through the chain of command with your association representatives. If the parents are that bad, then report it to those who have the authority to deal with it. Let them determine where the problem lays, investigate further, and deal with it accordingly, as other umpires may have had similar issues. Do not go after the parents or the leagues themselves, or you will eventually find that you are not welcome on their fields, within your umpiring association, or both, because you will have made life so difficult for others, they are not going to want you. I only speak from experience because I've seen this happen over and over again. It is sad too because the umpire loses, the association loses, and the kids suffer because the umpiring may go another route, if the situation gets that bad. Just my at the current rate of inflation.

My thoughts exactly. I didn't see the play (in the neighborhood. I saw the HP call that was missed by GD) originally.

Whatever happens outside the playing field, remains outside the playing field, unless the spectators actions present a danger to me, my crew, the players, or any personnel on the field. I could care less what they say. I actually have had to refrain from laughing at times. The most memorable: "Hey Ump, UPS called. They said your seeing eye dog will arrive in the next inning!" I nearly fell over laughing at that one. Ricka56, all due respect, you really need to grow a thicker skin, and learn to ignore what the fans are saying. When you are concentrating on your game, and in that zone, you honestly don't hear them. They are completely tuned out. You should really strive and learn to get to that point. It makes umpiring so much easier.

Fixed your post. ONE WAY, AND THE BEST WAY, is to rest your hands firmly on your knees, in a rock solid lock in mechanism. You forgot something..... This is an opinion and not a matter of fact. Different strokes for different folks. We're all built differently. Some can do the Box. Others Scissors. Some like the Gerry Davis. It's up the person. One stance is not better over the other. It's that you exercise proper mechanics, head height, and timing that counts.

Not sure if it was mentioned or not but there could have been two outs. With two outs it's not that uncommon in two man to work from B with a runner on 3rd. The likelihood of a throw to 3rd is very low and if there was to be a throw you have a great angle all you have t do is move closer to the play. Being in B just gives you a closer look at the play at 1st which is where it's going to be 99.9% of the time with 2 outs. The good angle observation is also true for a pickoff attempt at 1B if you are in 'C'. A young/fit umpire can get from 'C' to anywhere that his read takes him to in the time it takes the batter to get near 1B...the older, lets call it "sub-peak conditioned" umpires...not so much. @Ricka56: So you honestly think a young fit umpire can get anywhere from "C"? That might, and I stress might, work for kiddie ball, but when you do adult, collegiate, semi-pro, and professional, you'll get one, maybe two steps, before you have to get set to make the call. There you are striving for angle, and will give up some distance. Believe me, in upper echilon games, you'll hustle your ass off, regardless of your age. (Because I can see it coming, an exception would be Jock-O because NASA had to do something with their rockets that the current administration mothballed, so they installed one in his ass, and at the touch of a button, he can be anywhere on the field, in perfect position, to make the perfect call, and the crowd will be in total awe and amazement at his skill and cunning. "Who was that arbiter man?" they'll cry!) Two steps ? on a batted ball ? Reread my post (I've boldened/underlined the significant part above in your quote). I could have been more elaborate on my post (sometimes concise (my preference) is more important that precise...other times, not so much). Some umpires think that 'B' is the place to be because 1B is the most likely place for a play with R3 (as Platejob29 pointed out). But that's not a good reason to be in 'B' because any fit umpire can get to anywhere he needs to be on a batted ball from 'C'. On a pickoff, that's different sitch (you mixed up my other non-precise point). Whether you're looking at a pickoff at 1B from 'C' or looking at a pickoff at 3B from 'B', you're got approximately the same kind of angle. If you want to argue that 'B' is a better (closer) spot to be in on a pickoff at 1B because it is more likely, that may be true, but which would be more important a pick-off at 1B or a pickoff at 3B? I agree with whoever made the point that the powers-that-be probably choose to use (B/C) with R3/R1 depending on which position got burned the most recently. Two steps ? on a batted ball ? Reread my post (I've boldened/underlined the significant part above in your quote). On a batted ball, no you'll get a couple more steps. I was referring to a pickoff play at 1st. Angle is primary. Distance is secondary. You must not overcommit to one play, to be out of position to a following play. It's a fine line, but it works. For the rest, the reasons you bring out are thoroughly explained in the HW, Jim Evans, and PBUC manuals, but are too lengthy to describe in a thread. I suggest you buy one or all three, and see why with R1 and R3, you should always be on the B side, not C. In a nutshell, the preponderance of plays will be at 2nd and 1st. A pick-off at 3rd rarely happens and usually comes from a catcher throwing than a pitcher. Proper mechanic for R1 and R3 any outs is position B, first base side of the mound. It is the accepted practice and to be at C, IMHO, is wrong.

Not sure if it was mentioned or not but there could have been two outs. With two outs it's not that uncommon in two man to work from B with a runner on 3rd. The likelihood of a throw to 3rd is very low and if there was to be a throw you have a great angle all you have t do is move closer to the play. Being in B just gives you a closer look at the play at 1st which is where it's going to be 99.9% of the time with 2 outs. The good angle observation is also true for a pickoff attempt at 1B if you are in 'C'. A young/fit umpire can get from 'C' to anywhere that his read takes him to in the time it takes the batter to get near 1B...the older, lets call it "sub-peak conditioned" umpires...not so much. @Ricka56: So you honestly think a young fit umpire can get anywhere from "C"? That might, and I stress might, work for kiddie ball, but when you do adult, collegiate, semi-pro, and professional, you'll get one, maybe two steps, before you have to get set to make the call. There you are striving for angle, and will give up some distance. Believe me, in upper echilon games, you'll hustle your ass off, regardless of your age. (Because I can see it coming, an exception would be Jock-O because NASA had to do something with their rockets that the current administration mothballed, so they installed one in his ass, and at the touch of a button, he can be anywhere on the field, in perfect position, to make the perfect call, and the crowd will be in total awe and amazement at his skill and cunning. "Who was that arbiter man?" they'll cry!)

Not sure if it was mentioned or not but there could have been two outs. With two outs it's not that uncommon in two man to work from B with a runner on 3rd. The likelihood of a throw to 3rd is very low and if there was to be a throw you have a great angle all you have t do is move closer to the play. Being in B just gives you a closer look at the play at 1st which is where it's going to be 99.9% of the time with 2 outs. They'll adjust you once you get to pro school. Bases loaded, regardless of how many outs, is always on the shortstop side of the mound, or position C as some are callling it. Position B is not pro mechanics and is incorrect. I understand your logic, but it isn't the proper mechanic.

No. You should not. If you are, you are probably setting up too soon. You have more time than you think back there. Yes, it is possible for the catcher to readjust, but usually he sets up and you still have time to set up and then assume the position to properly call the pitch. For the box, your hands should be, according to HW, Comprehensive Manual for Two Umpire System, Index of Signals and Mechanics, pg 1 and Jim Evans, in his Maximizing the Two Umpire System, on pg 269, slot hand loosely in front of crotch, with the other hand resting on side of leg by knee.