Ground rule double or HR?

[Guest leftfield6]

Fly ball near right field foul pole.  Ball is misplayed by fielder, and deflects off of the fielder over the fence to the left of foul pole never hitting the ground before going over.  Homerun, correct? ( as in the famous Jose Canseco play, so I'm pretty sure on this one)

 

Same fly ball, but this time it deflects off of fielder into foul territory right of the foul pole, and lands over the fence in foul territory.  Ground Rule Double?

[maven]

The award is four bases if a fair ball leaves the field "in flight." OBR 7.05(a)
 
"In flight" means: "IN FLIGHT describes a batted, thrown, or pitched ball which has not yet touched
the ground or some object other than a fielder." OBR 2.00
 

For your second question, you need to rule on fair/foul: where did it first touch something? If it's a fair ball that leaves the field not in flight, then yes, 2 base award. OBR 7.05(f)

[Guest Guest]

The award is four bases if a fair ball leaves the field "in flight." OBR 7.05(a)

 

"In flight" means: "IN FLIGHT describes a batted, thrown, or pitched ball which has not yet touched

the ground or some object other than a fielder." OBR 2.00

 

For your second question, you need to rule on fair/foul: where did it first touch something? If it's a fair ball that leaves the field not in flight, then yes, 2 base award. OBR 7.05(f)

 

It struck the fielder while he was in fair ground, defected into the stands in foul territory "in flight".

[noumpere]

Two base award.  Right from the book.

[JaxRolo]

Two base award.  Right from the book.

What book?

[Guest Redzone04]

any baseball rule book.  Batted ball touched in fair territory and deflected into dead ball territory is two base award time of pitch. ( not verbatim)

[MPLSMatt]

I've a HR here?  How is it two base award?  It still meets the 4 base award in my eyes.  1) Fair Ball, 2) Leaves Field of Play, 3) Still in flight (fielder is not a reason for a ball to no longer be in flight).  

[Rich Ives]

any baseball rule book.  Batted ball touched in fair territory and deflected into dead ball territory is two base award time of pitch. ( not verbatim)

 

Try it again. This IS verbatim:

 

7.05 Each runner including the batter-runner may, without liability to be put out,

advance—

1. To home base, scoring a run, if a fair ball goes out of the playing field in flight

2.00 IN FLIGHT describes a batted, thrown, or pitched ball which has not yet touched

the ground or some object other than a fielder.

 

The ball was in flight because it did not touch the ground or an object other than a fielder. It was a fair ball. It went out of the playing field.  It's a HR.

[Replacematt]

I've a HR here?  How is it two base award?  It still meets the 4 base award in my eyes.  1) Fair Ball, 2) Leaves Field of Play, 3) Still in flight (fielder is not a reason for a ball to no longer be in flight).  

 

Where it goes out has a bearing on the award.

[MPLSMatt]

 

I've a HR here?  How is it two base award?  It still meets the 4 base award in my eyes.  1) Fair Ball, 2) Leaves Field of Play, 3) Still in flight (fielder is not a reason for a ball to no longer be in flight).  

 

Where it goes out has a bearing on the award.

 

 

Not saying your wrong, but do you have a citation for that?  

[ALStripes17]

any baseball rule book. Batted ball touched in fair territory and deflected into dead ball territory is two base award time of pitch. ( not verbatim)

Try it again. This IS verbatim:

7.05 Each runner including the batter-runner may, without liability to be put out,

advance—

1. To home base, scoring a run, if a fair ball goes out of the playing field in flight
   

2.00 IN FLIGHT describes a batted, thrown, or pitched ball which has not yet touched

the ground or some object other than a fielder.

The ball was in flight because it did not touch the ground or an object other than a fielder. It was a fair ball. It went out of the playing field. It's a HR.

I venture to say that the ball no longer has the status of 'fair' if it is in flight and leaves the playing field in foul territory. Yes it has been ruled 'fair' by definition, but it's status over foul territory would change the award to only 2 bases.

[Replacematt]

 

 

I've a HR here?  How is it two base award?  It still meets the 4 base award in my eyes.  1) Fair Ball, 2) Leaves Field of Play, 3) Still in flight (fielder is not a reason for a ball to no longer be in flight).  

 

Where it goes out has a bearing on the award.

 

 

Not saying your wrong, but do you have a citation for that?  

 

 

6.09h and 7.05f.

[noumpere]

 

 

 

I've a HR here?  How is it two base award?  It still meets the 4 base award in my eyes.  1) Fair Ball, 2) Leaves Field of Play, 3) Still in flight (fielder is not a reason for a ball to no longer be in flight).  

 

Where it goes out has a bearing on the award.

 

 

Not saying your wrong, but do you have a citation for that?  

 

 

6.09h and 7.05f.

 

The 7.05 rules can be read as contradictory to each other (both the "home run" and "double" awards seem to apply).  6.09 clears it up:

 

(h) Any fair fly ball is deflected by the fielder into the stands, or over the fence into

foul territory, in which case the batter shall be entitled to advance to second base;

but if deflected into the stands or over the fence in fair territory, the batter shall be

entitled to a home run. However, should such a fair fly be deflected at a point less

than 250 feet from home plate, the batter shall be entitled to two bases only.

[Rich Ives]

 

 

any baseball rule book. Batted ball touched in fair territory and deflected into dead ball territory is two base award time of pitch. ( not verbatim)

Try it again. This IS verbatim:

7.05 Each runner including the batter-runner may, without liability to be put out,

advance—

• To home base, scoring a run, if a fair ball goes out of the playing field in flight

2.00 IN FLIGHT describes a batted, thrown, or pitched ball which has not yet touched

the ground or some object other than a fielder.

The ball was in flight because it did not touch the ground or an object other than a fielder. It was a fair ball. It went out of the playing field. It's a HR.

 

I venture to say that the ball no longer has the status of 'fair' if it is in flight and leaves the playing field in foul territory. Yes it has been ruled 'fair' by definition, but it's status over foul territory would change the award to only 2 bases.

 

 

Yes it would but not in this case because that didn't happen.

[ALStripes17]

any baseball rule book. Batted ball touched in fair territory and deflected into dead ball territory is two base award time of pitch. ( not verbatim)

Try it again. This IS verbatim:

7.05 Each runner including the batter-runner may, without liability to be put out,

advance—

1. To home base, scoring a run, if a fair ball goes out of the playing field in flight
   

2.00 IN FLIGHT describes a batted, thrown, or pitched ball which has not yet touched

the ground or some object other than a fielder.

The ball was in flight because it did not touch the ground or an object other than a fielder. It was a fair ball. It went out of the playing field. It's a HR.

I venture to say that the ball no longer has the status of 'fair' if it is in flight and leaves the playing field in foul territory. Yes it has been ruled 'fair' by definition, but it's status over foul territory would change the award to only 2 bases.

Yes it would but not in this case because that didn't happen.

My response was for justifying a ball that hits a fielder in fair territory and goes out of play into foul territory as a 2 base award

[maven]

Yes it would but not in this case because that didn't happen.

Coach, the OP contains 2 plays:

1. Fair ball hits fielder and goes over the fence in flight on the "fair side" of the RF pole.
2. Fair ball hits fielder and goes over the fence in flight on the "foul side" of the RF pole.

The first is a HR, and the second is a 2 base award (TOP).

[Larry in TN]

It struck the fielder while he was in fair ground, defected into the stands in foul territory "in flight".

It doesn't matter where the fielder is when the ball is touched.  It only matters where the ball is when first touched.

[maven]

 

It struck the fielder while he was in fair ground, defected into the stands in foul territory "in flight".

It doesn't matter where the fielder is when the ball is touched.  It only matters where the ball is when first touched.

 

 

Although your statement is true, if the fielder was in fair territory when the ball hit him, I'd bet dollars to donuts that the ball was too.

[MPLSMatt]

Noumpire - thanks for the exact rule.  That pretty much wraps it up in my mind. 

[Guest leftfield6]

Thanks for responses, everyone!!!