How would you rule?

[poppyfor3]

LL Majors. R1 and R2, no outs. Lazy soft popup (not very high) to F-4. No IFF by umpires. Runners hold, but B-1 flies to first. F-4 drops ball unintentionally. R-1 and B-1 wind up on first at same time. R-1 takes off after drop and reaches 2nd on bad throw from F-4. Ruling??

[Umpire in Chief]

IFF is going to be a judgement call as to whether it is a "pop up"/ has enough height or not and whether a catch could have been made under ordinary effort.

So it is a HTBT with 2 judgment calls in the mix, but based on what you wrote I would think the no call was appropriate.

[carolinablue]

Since the IFF is designed to protect the offense and not the defense, when a defensive coach argues the lack of an IFF call it is usually because one of his players screwed up. I don't know if they were arguing here but it sounds like a good call to me. The defense just screwed up.

[therefump]

LL Majors. R1 and R2, no outs. Lazy soft popup (not very high) to F-4. No IFF by umpires. Runners hold, but B-1 flies to first. F-4 drops ball unintentionally. R-1 and B-1 wind up on first at same time. R-1 takes off after drop and reaches 2nd on bad throw from F-4. Ruling??

Unbelievable. :wow:Had that exact sitch today. Arc just not high enough to warrant an IFF and F4 bobbles it and drops it. Runners take off and everyone is safe around. The ball squirted out of his glove and he didn't recover in time. :ZZZ:Part of it is HTBT. Both coaches are seasoned and didn't question our judgement (BU & myself the PU).

Bottom line is that you have to call IFR if it is an IFR otherwise you're opening yourself up to some if not alot of barking from one or both coaches. Hopefully, BU and PU are signaling potential IFF before the batter comes up. I think that's 90% of IFR issues. :shrug:

[LMSANS]

In some rule sets (I forget which), the IFF can "call itself". Call it after you see what happens. I would imagine since this is the younger forum, that would be the case.

And no, I have never done this.

Edited May 15, 2009 by LMSANS
some for more

[someoneinca]

Call the batter out and have the runners return under rule 6.05(k) supplemented by the RIM. It says:

6.05 -- A batter is out when -

(k) "an infielder intentionally drops a fair fly ball or line drive, with first, first and second, first and third, or first, second and third bases occupied before two are out. The ball is dead and runner or runners shall return to their original base or bases;

“The Right Call” Casebook -- Rule of Thumb: If the fly ball touches a hand and/or glove and falls to the ground, rule intentionally dropped “dead ball, batter out and runner or runners shall return”. Exception: Infield Fly rule takes precedence over theintentionally dropped ball and it remains alive and in play.

[Mr Umpire]

Call the batter out and have the runners return under rule 6.05(k) supplemented by the RIM. It says:

This does not apply b/c the OP says it was unintentional. So, play ball and see what happens.

Also, if IFR is called, then this does not apply. The defense can drop an IF intentional and the ball is still live per OBR 2.00 definition of IF.

[moblue]

Just another example of why I think youth baseball is much more interesting than any other level of ball. No matter what you rule here, someone is going to be unhappy.

[therefump]

Just another example of why I think youth baseball is much more interesting than any other level of ball. No matter what you rule here, someone is going to be unhappy.

More PITA calls than anything. I occasionally get asked "how do I get into umpiring" and my first response is "DON'T" but if you do go do LL. You'll get 20 sitches a game vs. 1 or 2 a game in HS Varsity, Legion, etc. You'll learn so much more and either hone your confrontation skills or give up entirely. :shrug:

[someoneinca]

This does not apply b/c the OP says it was unintentional. So, play ball and see what happens.

Also, if IFR is called, then this does not apply. The defense can drop an IF intentional and the ball is still live per OBR 2.00 definition of IF.

Read the casebook play:

“The Right Call” Casebook -- Rule of Thumb: If the fly ball touches a hand and/or glove and falls to the ground, rule intentionally dropped “dead ball, batter out and runner or runners shall return”. Exception: Infield Fly rule takes precedence over the intentionally dropped ball and it remains alive and in play.

I assume that if the OP said it was dropped unintentionally that it touched a hand or glove. In this case, LL says to call the batter out.

The ball is still live on an IFF if dropped because the batter is already out. The casebook play mentions this as well.

[BrianC14]

Read the casebook play:

I assume that if the OP said it was dropped unintentionally that it touched a hand or glove. In this case, LL says to call the batter out.

The ball is still live on an IFF if dropped because the batter is already out. The casebook play mentions this as well.

There you go. There's a difference between a fielder dropping the ball and a fielder letting it drop. :tantrum:

[mstaylor]

LL Majors. R1 and R2, no outs. Lazy soft popup (not very high) to F-4. No IFF by umpires. Runners hold, but B-1 flies to first. F-4 drops ball unintentionally. R-1 and B-1 wind up on first at same time. R-1 takes off after drop and reaches 2nd on bad throw from F-4. Ruling??

If the umpires ruled no IF or no intentional the play is as played out, no need for anything after the fact. As correctly noted above, if there was an IF and the ball was intentionally dropped then the ball would stay live, no IF an intentionally dropped ball is dead.

There is a difference between accidently dropped, intentionally and intentionally letting it drop untouched. The first and last is no penalty, the second has a penalty if it isn't an IF.

[nolanadair]

If you did not call infield fly and in your judgement and your partners judgement the ball was not an infield fly then you would have a no call. You would have bases loaded with no outs.

[LLUmp35]

In some rule sets (I forget which), the IFF can "call itself". Call it after you see what happens. I would imagine since this is the younger forum, that would be the case.

And no, I have never done this.

This is correct in the Little League and pro rules. The IFF does call itself and it can cause quite a ruckus. We had it happen in a minor division championship game in our local league this year. When questioned, the umpires both agreed it was a textbook IFF that was not called. We ended up having to call the batter out as well as another out that eventually occurred on the bases.

In the case mentioned by the OP though, this isn't the case. They judged that the IFF rule did not apply and also judged that the ball was not intentionally dropped. I would say that the ruling would be to let the play run its course.

[scobes7]

This is correct in the Little League and pro rules. The IFF does call itself and it can cause quite a ruck

Not true...The umpire must judge it to be an infield fly at it's apex and call it. I would not buy as a coach that it calls itself. as an umpire I always call it out and would feel like crap if I did not call it as such and caused an extra out.

[mstaylor]

I think What they are saying is the offense and defense both has to know the situation and if you miss calling it, you can go back and get it.

[LLUmp35]

Not true...The umpire must judge it to be an infield fly at it's apex and call it. I would not buy as a coach that it calls itself. as an umpire I always call it out and would feel like crap if I did not call it as such and caused an extra out.

Actually it is true. An umpire is required to (or shall as the book says) call the infield fly. If he does not and either manager ends up questioning it, it's still an infield fly and must be treated as such. Of course on the "borderline" calls, it would make sense for the umpire to say that it wasn't judged to be an infield fly catchable with ordinary effort.

[Aging_Arbiter]

good no call.