Balk Question

[RenoUmp]

After a very funny looking pickoff attempt at first, after which R1 ended up at third, offensive coach calls time and wants to talk about the pickoff attempt.

The right-handed F1, fully engaged with the rubber, lifted leg and stepped towards first and threw towards first.

Coach argued that in order for F1 to go to first he had to disengage.

While he recognized that a left hander could go to first without disengaging, he argued that a right hander could not.

Admittedly, I have never seen this type of pickoff attempt before; however, my partner and I conferred and couldn't remember a rule that prohibited a right hander from going to first while engaged.

We allowed the move and F1 used it a couple of more times during the game.

We reviewed Rule 6.3 which generally indicates that a pitcher can pivot on the rubber and step towards any base which is occupied. . .

In thinking about the objection a bit further, I came up with the following question . . Can a right handed F1 pivot counterclockwise and step to first without initially giving the impression that he is going home, therefore starting the pitching motion, and committing a balk?

I am second guessing my initial ruling.

Help!!!

[moblue]

Yes, a right-handed F1 can throw to first while engaging the rubber. He has to step at an angle that is more than 45 degrees from home plate under FED rules. OBR requires the step to be directly toward the base and does not have the 45-degree requirement.

FED Rules Casebook:

6.2.4 SITUATION B: With R1 on first, F1 attempts a pickoff while stepping at an angle but to the home plate side. RULING: Balk. To comply with the requirement to "step directly toward," F1 must step tot he first-base side of a 45-degree angle between center of pitcher's plate and between home and first base. (6-2-4b)

6.2.4 Situation J in the casebook also makes a reference to F1 making a throw to first.

However, if F1 was bringing his non-pivot foot entirely past the back edge of the rubber and then throwing to first, you would have a balk according to 6-2-4f.

[noumpere]

The right-handed F1, fully engaged with the rubber, lifted leg and stepped towards first and threw towards first.

If the "lift" was just to "clear the cleats" and the step and turn was immediate, then the move is legal.

If the "lift" was "toward the balance point", then the move was illegal.

[dileonardoja]

If the "lift" was just to "clear the cleats" and the step and turn was immediate, then the move is legal.

If the "lift" was "toward the balance point", then the move was illegal.

If he is trying to glide step, the RHP better not lift his knee even so much as I see a ripple in his right pants leg. ecause if he does I am Balking him :rollinglaugh:

[mstaylor]

A RHP can step to first from the rubber, you can read the FED, NCAA or pro rulebook and it is legal, nor will you find any difference between RHP and LHP. He needs to lift his foot and step to first without hesitation. He can't start to the plate then swing out to first. Don't get rung up on how much or little he raises his foot. You wiill be able to tell from the plate whether he balked or not.

[BrianC14]

After a very funny looking pickoff attempt at first, after which R1 ended up at third, offensive coach calls time and wants to talk about the pickoff attempt.

The right-handed F1, fully engaged with the rubber, lifted leg and stepped towards first and threw towards first.

Coach argued that in order for F1 to go to first he had to disengage.

While he recognized that a left hander could go to first without disengaging, he argued that a right hander could not.

Admittedly, I have never seen this type of pickoff attempt before; however, my partner and I conferred and couldn't remember a rule that prohibited a right hander from going to first while engaged.

We allowed the move and F1 used it a couple of more times during the game.

We reviewed Rule 6.3 which generally indicates that a pitcher can pivot on the rubber and step towards any base which is occupied. . .

In thinking about the objection a bit further, I came up with the following question . . Can a right handed F1 pivot counterclockwise and step to first without initially giving the impression that he is going home, therefore starting the pitching motion, and committing a balk?

I am second guessing my initial ruling.

Help!!!

Let's back up a minute.... which leg was lifted during RHP's pickoff attempt?

If he lifted the "leading foot", and then turned, stepped and threw to 1B while still engaged with the pivot foot, that's legal. Coaches...

If he lifted his pivot foot and attempted this.... well, I'm having trouble with how that works.... he's a contortionist for sure.... I' can't see how he can step... unless of course, his pivot foot comes up, moves back and disengages, and then he turns and throws... but that's not what I'm reading in the OP.

[dileonardoja]

A RHP can step to first from the rubber, you can read the FED, NCAA or pro rulebook and it is legal, nor will you find any difference between RHP and LHP. He needs to lift his foot and step to first without hesitation. He can't start to the plate then swing out to first. Don't get rung up on how much or little he raises his foot. You wiill be able to tell from the plate whether he balked or not.

You may not find any differences in the book regarding RHP and LHP but lets face it The LHP has an advantage when holding runners at first. The LHP can raise his free knee straight up just as if he was pitching and then he can step to first. If a RHP does this it will be a balk.

[mstaylor]

You may not find any differences in the book regarding RHP and LHP but lets face it The LHP has an advantage when holding runners at first. The LHP can raise his free knee straight up just as if he was pitching and then he can step to first. If a RHP does this it will be a balk.

That is true but a RHP has the same advantage to third, plus he has the added bonus that he doesn't have to throw.

[rainier]

Problem I see with this is that to step backwards towards first to throw, don't you need to lift your foot? And by lifting your foot you are basically committing yourself to throw to either third or home (as an RHP). So how can an RHP step directly toward first in a natural motion without disengaging the rubber first or appearing to make a delivery home?

[Mr Umpire]

Problem I see with this is that to step backwards towards first to throw, don't you need to lift your foot? And by lifting your foot you are basically committing yourself to throw to either third or home (as an RHP). So how can an RHP step directly toward first in a natural motion without disengaging the rubber first or appearing to make a delivery home?

Some of it depends on how the RHP lifts his foot. If he does it just enough to clear his cleats, then he is ok as long as he did nothing else to commit him to HP. How high he lifts his foot can contribute. If he swings his feet toward HP as he is going around to 1B, can help make that decision.

This is just a HTBT situation.

[carolinablue]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOFzOkMJHqw

Did it look something like this. He is not stepping towards 1st base.

[1YoungUmp]

its legal.... but if he didnt throw it would have been a balk

[mstaylor]

If he isn't stepping toward first, where is he stepping. I see absolutely nothing wrong with this move.

[carolinablue]

If he isn't stepping toward first, where is he stepping. I see absolutely nothing wrong with this move.

1B is behind the rubber. He just threw the ball into the dugout. I bet they found that out when they tried it on a diamond. I agree however, that if a RHP can pull of the move correctly without breaking thier ankle, then it's legal.

[mstaylor]

carolina, he has from the 45 to first base to be legal. I would bet if you translate the move to the field he would be fine. I will agree that I would have to see it on a field but it looks fine.

[Umpire in Chief]

I've seen similar moves which work well. No balk.

[noumpere]

Did it look something like this. He is not stepping towards 1st base.

Yes he is. That's a perfect video of what is allowed (assuming that in a game situation he actually throws the ball).

[daled]

This moves looks perfectly legal to me.

[BT_Blue]

thats cause it is. Its a move I have seen plenty of times in youth ball here in CA