Question on parking lot ejection

[Dragon29]

Working the plate in a LL Jr (13-14) game the other night; had an incident on the field w/one of the players in the 2nd or 3rd inning that didn't warrant an ejection, but a warning. I informed the player and his manager and went on with the game.

The game proceeded with no further incidents; the player that had been warned came up to bat another 2-3 times and even pitched an inning or so - no issues, no problems - game over.

Immediately after the game, the player's father approaches me and asks if he can speak w/me. Now, I know this guy from years of both umpiring for the league and from the fact that our sons used to be in the same division. We even served together on our Board of Directors one season, three years ago and he is currently a coach for one of our Majors teams. Normally, I wouldn't get involved in a discussion with a parent after a game, but I figured he wanted to know what his son & I had discussed on the field, so I said 'Yes.'

Well, without going into too much detail, the conversation quickly turns; his wife and the player are now involved and starting to yell at me; once that starts, I tell them I'd be happy to discuss anything they want once everyone has calmed down, but not now and I continue to my car. My partner does his best to calm them down and get them away from me, but they continue to follow anyway.

The mother criticizes me to being able to 'intimidate little kids on the field, but not being able to face adults' and the player follows that with, "You're a coward!" So, I turn and eject him - this is about 30-40 yards away from the field.

There's more that follows, mostly from the father. I never felt physically threatened - he was just very upset.

So here's my question:

Valid ejection by the book?

I'm not asking what you would have done or even if I did anything wrong in handling the situation - I know I did - I'm asking whether or not you feel this ejection can be upheld by the letter of the rules.

Specifically, I'm looking at Rule 4.06(2): No manager, coach, or player, shall at any time, whether from the bench or he playing field or elsewhere use language which will in any manner refer to or reflect upon opposing players, manager, coach or umpire or spectators.

(my emphases)

Now, the reason I ask is that this rule is in the section entitled 'Starting and Ending the Game' - so, is it meant to be interpreted that strictly?

Thanks for your comments

[Umpire in Chief]

Once the game is over there can be no ejections (I believe there can be in NCAA.) Issues with coaches players and the like need to go to the local board at that time.

Sorry your friend did that to you, but unfortunately this isn't a by the book ejection.

[Jay R]

You ejected someone from the parking lot? Did I understand? If the game is over, I would remove myself from the situation as quickly as possible and leave the premises. If I felt threatened I would call the police. You should certainly write up this incident and send it to you assignor/supervisor etc...

[Mr Umpire]

I have always been told "The game isn't over until the umpires walk off the field". So, going by that alone and what the OBR has, then it is to be taken that strictly. But, keep in mind, those umpires are no where near fans(parents). This is an issue to be taken up with the BOD. They need to make it perfectly clear this will not be tolerated and make an example of the kid and his parents. By baseball rules, I think there is nothing to prevent or uphold your ejection. By safety rules, dad, mom, and kid better be banned from the park for a period of time. Then, told if it happens again, they will not be allowed back.

This kind of stuff is why so many laws have been put into place for officials. It escalates very quickly and the league needs to shut it down NOW.

I guess, next time, you will just get rid of the kid. Remember, as an official, you have no friends. Your supposed friends turn the moment things don't go their way. This is why I'm glad I do not get more involved in leagues except to umpire. It prevents things like this and I will not umpire at the league(s) my son will play in(if he plays) even after he has left.

[jjb]

I think you've figured out a better way to handle it next time: after the game is not the time to re-hash issues with fans. They're still emotional, and not really listening to your side.

Unless your league has a parking lot ejection (we do), the best thing to do is hold up your hand, say "we're done", and walk away.

[Dragon29]

Thanks for your comments guys - Yes, I know I didn't handle it as I should have and told the BOD that last night.

I think they're still suspending the player one game anyway and they're going to talk to the family about 'chasing' me to the parking lot.

Jay R - There was no thought of calling the police; I never felt personally threatened - it wasn't like that.

Thanks again!

[therefump]

Thanks for your comments guys - Yes, I know I didn't handle it as I should have and told the BOD that last night.

I think they're still suspending the player one game anyway and they're going to talk to the family about 'chasing' me to the parking lot.

Jay R - There was no thought of calling the police; I never felt personally threatened - it wasn't like that.

Thanks again!

Well, good for you. FED rules has it that a player/coach if ejected cannot participate in the next game. I LOVE THAT RULE.

Our Connie Mac divisions have the same rule as well.

From my own personal experiences I would NEVER talk to a coach or player or parent after a game for the very same reason you experienced. We want to be nice guys and be helpful but it's that old rule about "....nothing good can come of this". Hey, live and learn. Right?:rollinglaugh:

[mstaylor]

There is no rule in LL to cover parents except during the game and that is only to stop the game until the problem is fixed by administration. If the Dad had been a coach, then I'm all for ejecting him. Even if technically it won't stand up, I'm sure your BOD will uphold a suspension. In your case, keep walking and immediately turn in a report to the BOD about the incedent. If nothing is done then you may want to look at another league. There is no reason for parents, kids or coaches to be able to take free shots because they think there is no penalty. I would consider not doing this one team anymore just to take out any problems.

[MCLEOD36]

Dragon.

I think you did the right thing, the issue is after game and confines of the field and/or proximity. A game report will also correct this, because it is not FED or NCAA; you have to deal with game commissioners/league rules. But I am certain, if you bring that up, the player will sit the next game and the parents will learn thier lessons. That is the issue, with no real sanctioning body; like traveling ball and tournaments. The money changed hands and all they want to do is finish the games with no carryovers; thus, you get a different caliber of coaches/players typically and you can walk into some landmines if the league isnt attentive.

[blindumpire99]

After having an ass't coach come out to my between innings position in short right field a few years ago in a Cal Ripken game and threatening to kill me if I ever touched his kid again, my feelings on anything that remotely hints of potential physical troubles or anything that is carried into a parking lot, to me, is grounds enough to request,

1. immediate league officials intervention and/or,

2. law enforcement summonsing.

In the aformentioned sitch, I had sternly cautioned the 9 yr old for an attempted malicious contact at 1st base. The 1st base rat ass't got heaved after getting in my face and accusing me of jerking the kid up by the arm (??? BS you lying punk:crazy:! I never touched no kid. How could I have even jerked him up? he's standing right here, 5 feet in front of me??)

Better to have and not need than need and not have..

[catoblue]

In the OP, you said that you warned the kid and the manager. That is by the book.

When approached after the game, the way I'd have handled it is to direct the parents to talk to the kid's coach to find out what happened.

If the parents had persisted after that - "that's enough, I'm not going to discuss it", and leave. Phone call and report go to league president that evening.

[therefump]

After having an ass't coach come out to my between innings position in short right field a few years ago in a Cal Ripken game and threatening to kill me if I ever touched his kid again, my feelings on anything that remotely hints of potential physical troubles or anything that is carried into a parking lot, to me, is grounds enough to request,

1. immediate league officials intervention and/or,

2. law enforcement summonsing.

In the aformentioned sitch, I had sternly cautioned the 9 yr old for an attempted malicious contact at 1st base. The 1st base rat ass't got heaved after getting in my face and accusing me of jerking the kid up by the arm (??? BS you lying punk:crazy:! I never touched no kid. How could I have even jerked him up? he's standing right here, 5 feet in front of me??)

Better to have and not need than need and not have..

That's one reason I carry my cell phone with me no matter as PU or BU. 911 is one touch away. If I were accused of "touching any kid" then I'm going to get law enforcement involved. All any one of us need is a coach accusing us of "touching" a player. In this litigious society I won't chance it.

[mstaylor]

I was reffing a youth soccer game once where a fight broke out. I subdued the aggressor, who was way bigger than the other kid. I did so by putting my arm across his chest from behind. I am trained in various types of control methods and I used the least amount possible. I red carded the kid which took him out of the first round of play-offs. The mother tried to have me arrested for choking her poor baby boy. Never mind that he was 14 and the kid he wailed was 11.

All eyewitnesses backed me up and nothing became of it. She was using it as threat to get me pulled from play-offs. My assignor told to do what she had to but her darling was out of the next game no matter. She then tried three different ploys to go over our heads. My director called me on each one and I told him to tell her to pack sand.

[jjb]

Mike, I probably would have done the same thing: we see something happening, react, and either instinctively separate the combatants, or protect the kid. However, I've seen more parents freak out when an adult puts his hands on their little Bubba, and either threaten or pursue Court Action. I've been to heated BOD meetings, where a parent wants a Coach dismembered for moving her kid out of the way of a player in full gallop. It's wrong, it's WAY over-reacting, and it's the way of the world nowadays. We now have to back off, call for the coaches, and eject at will.

[BT_Blue]

Both NCAA (positive) and FED (somewhat positive) have instituted a "post game ejection" option.

Dragon, only thing I would do is maybe tell the kid that you are issuing a post game ejection so everything is clear what is going on.