Please add this to your NCAA Rules Survey

[grayhawk]

The NCAA rules survey is out, with questions about:

- Making the double 1st base mandatory (I supported)
- Making the 10 run rule required (not by conf adoption) (I supported)
- Allowing bat sensor technology (No opinion)
- Making any play reviewable that may correct obvious errors that may have a significant impact on the outcome of the game (I supported)
- Allowing 1 timeout per at-bat for hitters (like MLB) (I opposed)
- Reducing the pitch clock from 20 to 18 seconds (I supported)
- Implement a shift rule (I opposed)

But here's the one they missed and that I entered in the comments section. Please do so as well if you agree:

To give the umpire the ability to warn/penalize batters that intentionally enter the box and delay looking at the pitcher to get an "eyes up" warning/violation on the pitcher. I suggest that on the first instance, a team warning shall be issued. A strike shall be added to the count for any batter on that team for a second instance. It has gotten out of hand and the NCAA needs to step in and put it to a stop. Thoughts?

[Velho]

22 minutes ago, grayhawk said:

To give the umpire the ability to warn/penalize batters that intentionally enter the box and delay looking at the pitcher to get an "eyes up" warning/violation on the pitcher.

Is there a time set that the batter has to be aware, e.g. MLB 8 seconds?

[grayhawk]

34 minutes ago, Velho said:

Is there a time set that the batter has to be aware, e.g. MLB 8 seconds?

Yes, it's the same. But batters are gaming the system by entering the box with, say, 15 seconds remaining and then using delay tactics like staring back at the clock at the backstop, looking down at their feet, or staring straight ahead all with the hopes of inducing the pitcher to start his motion to get an "eyes up" warning and/or violation. We call it "playing f@ck f@ck with the clock."

[orangebird]

1 hour ago, grayhawk said:

The NCAA rules survey is out, with questions about:

- Making the double 1st base mandatory (I supported)
- Making the 10 run rule required (not by conf adoption) (I supported)
- Allowing bat sensor technology (No opinion)
- Making any play reviewable that may correct obvious errors that may have a significant impact on the outcome of the game (I supported)
- Allowing 1 timeout per at-bat for hitters (like MLB) (I opposed)
- Reducing the pitch clock from 20 to 18 seconds (I supported)
- Implement a shift rule (I opposed)

But here's the one they missed and that I entered in the comments section. Please do so as well if you agree:

To give the umpire the ability to warn/penalize batters that intentionally enter the box and delay looking at the pitcher to get an "eyes up" warning/violation on the pitcher. I suggest that on the first instance, a team warning shall be issued. A strike shall be added to the count for any batter on that team for a second instance. It has gotten out of hand and the NCAA needs to step in and put it to a stop. Thoughts?

one of the college umps I worked a JV game with told me this was a problem they have in college, funny to see it mentioned here too

[The Man in Blue]

I don’t call NCAA, but I see that in the same vein as an “induced balk.”  Not going to penalize the pitcher.  Call time and reset. Agreed there should be a penalty for the batter.

[dumbdumb]

nice.

just like flopping in basketball and soccer. how is AI going to stop this ticky tacky one ups man ship with bending the rules to the limit in the future. rather than play the game lets try and draw a violation and if we don't/do get it called we yell at the ump from one side or the other. so, basically we are trying to create situations so we can yell at the umpire or trying to break the momentum/timing etc. of the player with head games.

did not see anything above about going full ABS in the future with all that collegiate NIL money floating around and getting everything correct for the new pay to play travel ball recruited hero's of the future.

[BLWizzRanger]

I have to disagree.  How am I to judge what the batter is thinking at that moment?  It might be legitimate.  Is he saying the Lord's Prayer?  Is he going over his keys to the at bat?  The rules state he has until 8 seconds to engage his eyes to the pitcher.  And the pitcher has 18/20 seconds to start the pitching motion.  I don't know what the pitcher is thinking either when he is engaged with the batter at 12 seconds and waits until one second left to start the motion.  

There is gamesmanship as well when a runner takes stutter steps or stomps their feet acting like they are going to steal.  Or the fielder acts like they are going to catch a ball but the ball falls in front of them.  Maybe the fielder holds a glove on the runner when the ball gets past him.

Gamesmanship is part of the game.  Why worry about this instance?

[grayhawk]

21 minutes ago, BLWizzRanger said:

I have to disagree.  How am I to judge what the batter is thinking at that moment?  It might be legitimate.  Is he saying the Lord's Prayer?  Is he going over his keys to the at bat?  The rules state he has until 8 seconds to engage his eyes to the pitcher.  And the pitcher has 18/20 seconds to start the pitching motion.  I don't know what the pitcher is thinking either when he is engaged with the batter at 12 seconds and waits until one second left to start the motion.  

There is gamesmanship as well when a runner takes stutter steps or stomps their feet acting like they are going to steal.  Or the fielder acts like they are going to catch a ball but the ball falls in front of them.  Maybe the fielder holds a glove on the runner when the ball gets past him.

Gamesmanship is part of the game.  Why worry about this instance?

We're not judging what he's thinking, we're judging his actions. How do I know it's not legitimate? Because this NEVER happened before the pitch clock was instituted. It's obvious when he's trying to induce an "eyes up" warning/violation - you can spot it a mile away. This is a safety rule that has been twisted into something it was never supposed to be.

That said, I've had plenty of opposition to my stance on this (elsewhere), so either this doesn't happen in other regions or umpires don't see it as an issue. In my view, it's just one more thing the plate umpire has to focus their attention on, and I'd prefer not to have to stare at the batter's eyes for 5+ seconds to make sure he's actually looking at the pitcher rather than just staring ahead hoping to get a violation, all while keeping watch on the clock to make sure his eyes are where they're supposed to be before the clock strikes 7.

[BLWizzRanger]

1 hour ago, grayhawk said:

We're not judging what he's thinking, we're judging his actions. How do I know it's not legitimate? Because this NEVER happened before the pitch clock was instituted. It's obvious when he's trying to induce an "eyes up" warning/violation - you can spot it a mile away. This is a safety rule that has been twisted into something it was never supposed to be.

That said, I've had plenty of opposition to my stance on this (elsewhere), so either this doesn't happen in other regions or umpires don't see it as an issue. In my view, it's just one more thing the plate umpire has to focus their attention on, and I'd prefer not to have to stare at the batter's eyes for 5+ seconds to make sure he's actually looking at the pitcher rather than just staring ahead hoping to get a violation, all while keeping watch on the clock to make sure his eyes are where they're supposed to be before the clock strikes 7.

No, you aren't judging his thinking, but his actions can be a result of what he is thinking - and I will give you that it might be to freeze out the pitcher.  The pitcher can wait until the last minute to freeze the batter.  It goes both ways.  But the pitcher isn't in a vacuum out there either.  They know to wait until the batter engages with them and they know, at worst, that they have 8 seconds to start their motion.  A baker can't bake a cake unless the 'batter' is mixed and in the pan. That is on the baker if he puts the pan in the oven without the 'batter.'

If the pitcher can take the pitch clock down to one second with no repercussions, than the batter should be able to do that as well with his time limit. You can't favor one over the other.

[grayhawk]

29 minutes ago, BLWizzRanger said:

No, you aren't judging his thinking, but his actions can be a result of what he is thinking - and I will give you that it might be to freeze out the pitcher.  The pitcher can wait until the last minute to freeze the batter.  It goes both ways.  But the pitcher isn't in a vacuum out there either.  They know to wait until the batter engages with them and they know, at worst, that they have 8 seconds to start their motion.  A baker can't bake a cake unless the 'batter' is mixed and in the pan. That is on the baker if he puts the pan in the oven without the 'batter.'

If the pitcher can take the pitch clock down to one second with no repercussions, than the batter should be able to do that as well with his time limit. You can't favor one over the other.

I've seen this comparison and it doesn't compute. Yes, the pitcher needs to be sure the batter has eyes up. It's the BS tactics that we're seeing that had never been used before. If you haven't seen it then it's hard for you to imagine. Batters that get in the box, stare at their feet for 3 seconds, SLOWLY raise their head, stare straight ahead and then SLOWLY turn their head towards the pitcher, all while hoping to induce a penalty. Then you have the ones that look up and then look down again, which is dangerous.

The comparison of these tactics versus a pitcher taking the clock to 1 second just isn't the same.

[Velho]

How does MLB deal with this?

[BLWizzRanger]

22 minutes ago, grayhawk said:

I've seen this comparison and it doesn't compute. Yes, the pitcher needs to be sure the batter has eyes up. It's the BS tactics that we're seeing that had never been used before. If you haven't seen it then it's hard for you to imagine. Batters that get in the box, stare at their feet for 3 seconds, SLOWLY raise their head, stare straight ahead and then SLOWLY turn their head towards the pitcher, all while hoping to induce a penalty. Then you have the ones that look up and then look down again, which is dangerous.

The comparison of these tactics versus a pitcher taking the clock to 1 second just isn't the same.

I've seen it.  Agree to disagree. 

Other than the ball being hurled at a batter's head being the safety issue, the anxiety that one player is trying to induce over the other is exactly the same. Can the pitcher wait to come set or start their motion? Can the hitter stay ready in the box waiting?  Both are due to the anxiety the other is inducing to them having to wait.

 

 

[grayhawk]

6 hours ago, Velho said:

How does MLB deal with this?

I don't watch a ton of MLB, but of the games I've watched, I don't see batters doing what I'm seeing.

[grayhawk]

6 hours ago, BLWizzRanger said:

I've seen it.  Agree to disagree. 

Other than the ball being hurled at a batter's head being the safety issue, the anxiety that one player is trying to induce over the other is exactly the same. Can the pitcher wait to come set or start their motion? Can the hitter stay ready in the box waiting?  Both are due to the anxiety the other is inducing to them having to wait.

 

 

The difference being that one can cause the other to commit a violation. How can the pitcher cause the batter to get a warning/violation by holding the ball until .01?

[BLWizzRanger]

2 hours ago, grayhawk said:

The difference being that one can cause the other to commit a violation. How can the pitcher cause the batter to get a warning/violation by holding the ball until .01?

i don't see how the batter causes the pitcher to commit a violation.  The pitcher has to have self control not to come set or to start his motion until the batter is engaged.  They can see the clock too and know when the clock gets down below 8 seconds. If they start their motion or move to a set position knowing a batter is gaming the system, then that is on them.  

I will check but I thought there was a NCAA training video on the batter stepping out after they were engaged below 8 seconds.  They either stepped out after trying to get a time granted (it was not since time can't/shouldn't be granted unless for valid reasons) or the pitcher stepped off the rubber below 8 seconds and right back on the rubber which is allowed when there aren't any runners on base.