You granting the appeal, or dealing with the SH*#storm?

[beerguy55]

Assuming NCAA fastpitch requires intentional, not accidental, appeals?

Edit: it looks like the initial call in this video is "safe", but according to other info I've seen, the game ended on this play, with the second out coming...via video review?  Crew consultation?  Anyone know?

[Velho]

17 minutes ago, beerguy55 said:

Edit: it looks like the initial call in this video is "safe", but according to other info I've seen, the game ended on this play, with the second out coming...via video review?  Crew consultation?  Anyone know?

Just looked at it. Safe on the field. Went to review and was ruled an out.

[Replacematt]

I don't agree with this title...if you grant the appeal, it's likely no one says a word (at least if they saw the initial touch.)

[The Man in Blue]

3 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

Assuming NCAA fastpitch requires intentional, not accidental, appeals?

[beerguy55]

14 hours ago, Replacematt said:

I don't agree with this title...if you grant the appeal, it's likely no one says a word (at least if they saw the initial touch.)

Title says OR, not AND.

You grant the appeal OR you don't (and deal with the ensuing SH*#storm, having to explain the concept of accidentally touching the base).

 

Still operating under the presumption that in NCAA appeals must be intentional and not accidental, and that in this play you COULD, if you're so inclined, deny the appeal by rule.  (not disputing the SH*#tiness of such a call...only looking at the legality)

[The Man in Blue]

13 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

Still operating under the presumption that in NCAA appeals must be intentional and not accidental, and that in this play you COULD, if you're so inclined, deny the appeal by rule.  (not disputing the SH*#tiness of such a call...only looking at the legality)

 

They don't.  You can't.  The rule is right above your post.

With R1, the batter hits a ground ball up the middle.  F6 makes a diving grab that takes him/her into second base.  Are you going to rule that they need to stand up and intentionally touch the bag before you will call the out?

[jimurrayalterego]

27 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said:

 

They don't.  You can't.  The rule is right above your post.

With R1, the batter hits a ground ball up the middle.  F6 makes a diving grab that takes him/her into second base.  Are you going to rule that they need to stand up and intentionally touch the bag before you will call the out?

In the baseball codes I call, forces can be accidental, appeals can not. It seems "indicating" and "if necessary" would also mean that appeals can not be accidental in your cite. The OP being judged as indicating to the umpire......would make that an appeal.

[Velho]

Sorry, I'm lost on what you all's opinion is on what's the proper call.

I see:

1) At 0:32 F5 first touches the ball and then contacts 3B with her left leg

2) At 0:33 F5 right foot taps 3B with her head turning to the left

3) At 0:34 F5 intentionally taps 3B with her right foot (tries to at least, we'l assume she got it)

4) I see the runner retouch at 0:32.5

 

I think #3 is a proper appeal.

On video, watching closely, I think #2 is a proper appeal but can see folks saying no. I think that's impossible to get in real time given U3's (proper) positioning.

Replay, in calling a out, either granted #1 as a proper appeal or see R3 retouch after #2.

Is anyone arguing that the base touch on the catching dive (#1) is a proper appeal?

 

[Jay R.]

7 hours ago, Velho said:

Is anyone arguing that the base touch on the catching dive (#1) is a proper appeal?

 

The replay officials

[beerguy55]

10 hours ago, Velho said:

I think #3 is a proper appeal.

On video, watching closely, I think #2 is a proper appeal but can see folks saying no. I think that's impossible to get in real time given U3's (proper) positioning.

Replay, in calling a out, either granted #1 as a proper appeal or see R3 retouch after #2.

Is anyone arguing that the base touch on the catching dive (#1) is a proper appeal?

Number 3 is a proper appeal, but comes too late.

Speculation alert:

My only conclusion is that the umpire ruled, retroactively or retrospectively, that there was intent to appeal all along.  And that F5 indicated, with enough conviction, that she did indeed try to touch the base as she landed...much like a wide receiver simultaneously diving and dragging their toes on the sidelines. (or, at the very least, while briefly touching the base realized she had the ball and the runner wasn't back)

He simply did not think she succeeded in touching the bag in time, which replay review corrected.

Speculation ends

Another viable explanation is, in the moment the ump(s) simply forgot about accidental appeals (I mean, how often does that ever come up?), and I highly doubt most of these coaches even know that to argue/question it, and the video review was simply about whether the base was tagged in time.   

I'm not sure if replay review goes to the scope of assessing the "properness" of an appeal...but only determines if the runner left early or missed a base, and that the appeal was completed in time.

12 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

They don't.  You can't.  The rule is right above your post.

With R1, the batter hits a ground ball up the middle.  F6 makes a diving grab that takes him/her into second base.  Are you going to rule that they need to stand up and intentionally touch the bag before you will call the out?

Your cite above indicates intent, but could raise discussion/debate.  It is not as explicit as the OBR language (which literally says that inadvertently stepping on a base is not an appeal), but I think there's enough there to conclude that NCAA also does not allow accidental appeals....that is, you must demonstrate, in some capacity, to the umpire that you are touching that base for a reason.

Your example here is not applicable...you CAN achieve a force out by accidentally tagging a base (and frankly, you can accidentally tag a runner out, who is off base, force or not) in all baseball and softball codes.

[Velho]

31 minutes ago, beerguy55 said:

you CAN achieve a force out by accidentally tagging a base

Had it the other day. 2 outs, bases loaded, wild pitch, F2 recovers the ball and knee slides over home plate trying to tag R3.  Force out. Inning over.

[BLWizzRanger]

1 hour ago, Velho said:

Had it the other day. 2 outs, bases loaded, wild pitch, F2 recovers the ball and knee slides over home plate trying to tag R3.  Force out. Inning over.

2 strike count and batter swings on the pitch?

[Velho]

2 minutes ago, BLWizzRanger said:

2 strike count and batter swings on the pitch?

Yep

[Hambine]

Does F5 need to begin her communication of the appeal before R3 retouches on a play that happens this fast? She obviously touched before R3, but didn’t indicate the appeal until R3 had returned.