Fixing Mistakes - Infield Fly

[Umpy]

Obviously the goal is to not make mistakes in the first place, but mistakes are made. I've been reading a lot about Infield Fly catastrophes, and the consensus seems to be "Don't allow a double play to happen, fix it if you screwed up".  All the case plays however seem to only address situations where the ball is uncaught.

Not allowing a double play makes a lot of sense to me when the ball is uncaught.  If there's an Infield Fly no-call and say the shortstop DOES catch it and immediately tags R2 who was halfway to third, is there a mistake to be corrected or would you call two outs?

[Replacematt]

53 minutes ago, Umpy said:

Obviously the goal is to not make mistakes in the first place, but mistakes are made. I've been reading a lot about Infield Fly catastrophes, and the consensus seems to be "Don't allow a double play to happen, fix it if you screwed up".  All the case plays however seem to only address situations where the ball is uncaught.

Not allowing a double play makes a lot of sense to me when the ball is uncaught.  If there's an Infield Fly no-call and say the shortstop DOES catch it and immediately tags R2 who was halfway to third, is there a mistake to be corrected or would you call two outs?

I don't see something that needs to be corrected here. The outcome would be the same regardless of the call.

What would be the argument for correcting it?

[Umpy]

2 hours ago, Replacematt said:

What would be the argument for correcting it?

General guidance from sources like the Little League RIM just say to not allow ANY double plays when an Infield Fly should have been called.  I've never thought such a situation would need correcting, the runner should know to hold on a fly ball; based on what I've seen written I thought maybe I was the odd one out.

"Whether the ball is an infield fly or not, if all the requirements are met, is solely the judgment of the umpire and may not be protested. However, if the umpires forget to call the Infield Fly, the situation must be corrected. The defense must not be allowed to get a double play when the Infield Fly should have been called. Make the belated call and get the situation corrected"

[Velho]

17 minutes ago, Umpy said:

General guidance from sources like the Little League RIM just say to not allow ANY double plays when an Infield Fly should have been called. 

I get that and think your scenario is an exception to the statement. That statement is for the more normal example of an uncalled INF that drives frozen runners forward into a DP.

In OP the defense didn't get a DP because you didn't call the INF. It got it from poor base running (no matter what story the coach tries to tell you  

[noumpere]

4 hours ago, Umpy said:

General guidance from sources like the Little League RIM just say to not allow ANY double plays when an Infield Fly should have been called.

 

Like all simplifications, you can't apply it to everything.  They mean the  2-5-4 type force out double play; not an appeal caused by stupid baserunning.

[The Man in Blue]

9 hours ago, Umpy said:

. . . is there a mistake to be corrected or would you call two outs?

 

Yes, there is a mistake to be corrected, but it is not our job to fix the coach's mistakes.

 

Two outs.  You didn't "allow" it; it happened.

[Central Cal Umpire]

The Infield Fly rules for most leagues generally state that once it has been called, runners “advance at their own risk.”

That means, once the IFR has been called, it’s to be understood by everyone on the field that the batter is out and the runners have now been warned that they don’t have to leave their respective bases.

If one does leave and he’s tagged out, it’s now the responsibility of the runner and the coaches, not the umpire.

[beerguy55]

On 5/13/2025 at 2:42 PM, Umpy said:

General guidance from sources like the Little League RIM just say to not allow ANY double plays when an Infield Fly should have been called.  I've never thought such a situation would need correcting, the runner should know to hold on a fly ball; based on what I've seen written I thought maybe I was the odd one out.

"Whether the ball is an infield fly or not, if all the requirements are met, is solely the judgment of the umpire and may not be protested. However, if the umpires forget to call the Infield Fly, the situation must be corrected. The defense must not be allowed to get a double play when the Infield Fly should have been called. Make the belated call and get the situation corrected"

 

On 5/13/2025 at 10:43 AM, Umpy said:

Not allowing a double play makes a lot of sense to me when the ball is uncaught.  If there's an Infield Fly no-call and say the shortstop DOES catch it and immediately tags R2 who was halfway to third, is there a mistake to be corrected or would you call two outs?

Ask yourself this.

Is there any universe where calling IFF would have changed the outcome of this play?

Yes, the purpose of the rule is to protect the runners - specifically to protect them from falling victim to an easy DP that was created by a force...somewhere in the range of 150 years ago, some savvy fielder allowed such a fly ball to drop and got an easy double (or triple) play...so they created the rule to close that loophole.  The U3K first base occupied exception follows the same principle.  (imagine being able to get out of a bases loaded zero out jam by just dropping a third strike?)

The purpose of the rule is NOT to protect the runners from themselves.

[johnnyg08]

On 5/15/2025 at 4:15 PM, beerguy55 said:

The purpose of the rule is NOT to protect the runners from themselves.

100x this! 

[The Man in Blue]

On 5/15/2025 at 4:15 PM, beerguy55 said:

The purpose of the rule is NOT to protect the runners from themselves.

 

I hope I never need that, but I am adding this one to my toolbox!