Pitch Delivered without Proper Stretch

[Slippery Fish]

Had a situation this weekend that I'm not confident I ruled on correctly. USSSA Rules (i.e. OBR Balk Rules), 13U.

R1, R2, pitcher in the set. I'm PU. Batter makes a base hit and all runners advance one base. I'm not sure how it even came up by my partner and the DHC get into a discussion about whether or not F1 balked. My partner said that the pitcher engaged the rubber with his hands together, and then "came set" with his hands still together before delivering the pitch. He didn't call a balk when it happened because he mistakenly thought that under OBR balk rules that he was supposed to wait until after the pitch was delivered. I somehow missed that this happened, which was a big error on my part.

So, now there's a discussion about whether or not to let the play stand. I shared my opinion that the action wouldn't be a balk, but a "don't do that" where you tell the pitcher to step off. DHC disagrees and also insists that the ball should have been dead upon the violation. Ultimately my partner suggests that we acknowledge the balk, advance R1 and R2 and send the batter back to the plate. We are in earshot of both head coaches and it's agreeable to them, and unfortunately I wasn't confident in what the actual ruling was supposed to be so that is what we did.

All that said:

1) Am I correct that this is not a balk? If so, I'm assuming the correct mechanic is to tell the pitcher to step off and start over.

2) If somehow a pitch is delivered after this violation, what, if anything, is the remedy? In this situation the offense came out fine, but I could easily envision a situation where the pitch is delivered or a pickoff is attempted that would disadvantage the offense.

[noumpere]

Yes.  Nothing.

 

The defense erred and you penalized the offense after the fact.  That's rarely the right answer.

[DevildogUmp]

1. Engaging the rubber in the set with the hands together is a "don't do that", call time and have the pitcher reset.

2. Even if there was a balk in this particular situation, in OBR, a balk is a live ball and since the BR and all runners advanced one base, you ignore the balk. If the BR and all runners do not advance one base, then enforce the balk, which 99% of the time would be: advance runners and nullify the pitch (if thrown).

[grayhawk]

1. Yes, it's not a balk. Yes, call time and instruct the pitcher to have his hands separated before engaging the rubber.

2. There is no remedy. And you certainly shouldn't penalize the offense when it mistakenly is allowed to happen.

You certainly should have been suspect when the DHC was arguing for a balk. 

[jimurrayalterego]

I doubt that what happened was a sideways pitcher windup but it was bases loaded. So I'll ask the question. Was the pitcher a sideways pitcher who winds up from what looks like the set with a stutter step with the free foot. These pitchers take the rubber differently when pitching from the set or windup. Some take the rubber hands together with a stretch of the arms to get comfortable when going to wind up. That would be legal for any windup pitcher no matter what the orientation of his pivot foot with the rubber. You would not mistake such a pitcher who was going to pitch from the set because they address the rubber differently with hands apart while looking into the catcher for a sign. New umpires sometimes do not recognize the nuance of such pitchers and also do not recognize the runner configs where such a pitcher would change his delivery.

Edited to add. While my above treatise is worth reading it does not apply as I did not catch the OP as R1, R2 and assumed the event happened after the base hit.

[Richvee]

30 minutes ago, jimurrayalterego said:

I doubt that what happened was a sideways pitcher windup but it was bases loaded. So I'll ask the question. Was the pitcher a sideways pitcher who winds up from what looks like the set with a stutter step with the free foot. These pitchers take the rubber differently when pitching from the set or windup. Some take the rubber hands together with a stretch of the arms to get comfortable when going to wind up. That would be legal for any windup pitcher no matter what the orientation of his pivot foot with the rubber. You would not mistake such a pitcher who was going to pitch from the set because they address the rubber differently with hands apart while looking into the catcher for a sign. New umpires sometimes do not recognize the nuance of such pitchers and also do not recognize the runner configs where such a pitcher would change his delivery.

Edited to add. While my above treatise is worth reading it does not apply as I did not catch the OP as R1, R2 and assumed the event happened after the base hit.

R1/R2

[jimurrayalterego]

52 minutes ago, Richvee said:

R1/R2

Yes, I added an edit. Did not RTFOP

[Slippery Fish]

Thanks for the replies, this has made things more clear for me.

For completeness sake, is engaging the rubber with hands together officiated/ruled differently in FED? I ask because there is a penalty listed for violations of the pitching position descriptions in FED rule 6.1.(1-3) that I don't see in the OBR rulebook. 

Also, I'm seeing in OBR that the requirement to come to a set position without interruption and in one continuous motion is in the pitching position rules (5.07), not the balk rules (6.02a). If a pitcher doesn't go from the stretch to the set in a continuous motion, is that just a "don't do that" and reset as well?