South Carolina appeals (or lack thereof)

[DevildogUmp]

For anyone in SC, is the state rule for calling runners out for missed bases/leaving early without an appeal actually in writing anywhere?

 

[boyinr]

@lawump would be the best source of this information

[lawump]

Yes.  It is in the South Carolina High School League's (SCHSL) rule book (which is called the "AD Notebook" on their website (www.schsl.org) ).

It reads, simply, "Dead ball appeals will not be recognized".

[DevildogUmp]

@lawump I had found that and I thought it was maybe spelled out somewhere else since, in my mind, that sentence doesn't translate to "the umpire will call out base runners after the play is over". When I read "Dead ball appeals will not be recognized", I interpret that to mean all appeals must be live ball appeals. Any idea what kind of twisted road the interpreters took to get there?

[lawump]

On 3/12/2025 at 7:23 PM, DevildogUmp said:

@lawump I had found that and I thought it was maybe spelled out somewhere else since, in my mind, that sentence doesn't translate to "the umpire will call out base runners after the play is over". When I read "Dead ball appeals will not be recognized", I interpret that to mean all appeals must be live ball appeals. Any idea what kind of twisted road the interpreters took to get there?

Um, they passed a rule without thinking it through.  Then the umpires told it was a disaster, so they just issued opinions at the annual coach's clinic that made it clear that it applied only to missed bases and leaving too soon (when the runner was not actively trying to correct his mistake).  

When I write "just issued opinions" I mean verbal opinions at pre-season clinics.

I really think this rule is on its last legs.  There are a number of constituencies working to end it.  We're getting closer.

[ilyazhito]

On 3/17/2025 at 3:49 PM, lawump said:

Um, they passed a rule without thinking it through.  Then the umpires told it was a disaster, so they just issued opinions at the annual coach's clinic that made it clear that it applied only to missed bases and leaving too soon (when the runner was not actively trying to correct his mistake).  

When I write "just issued opinions" I mean verbal opinions at pre-season clinics.

I really think this rule is on its last legs.  There are a number of constituencies working to end it.  We're getting closer.

I hope that the SC rule will match NCAA and OBR practice that appeals are allowed only while the ball is live, not the stupid practice of umpires automatically calling runners out for missing bases. 

[The Man in Blue]

16 hours ago, ilyazhito said:

I hope that the SC rule will match NCAA and OBR practice that appeals are allowed only while the ball is live, not the stupid practice of umpires automatically calling runners out for missing bases. 

 

Yeah, I do not read that statement to mean we should throw appeal play rules out the window, just that the ball needs to be made live before a proper appeal will be recognized.

[MadMax]

4 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

just that the ball needs to be made live before a proper appeal will be recognized.

Uhm... no. I think you're misspeaking, specifically in regards to how the state of South Carolina adjudicates baseball in regards to these sort of plays. 

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but NCAA/NAIA/NJCAA games played within South Carolina (eg. Clemson, U of South Carolina, Coastal Carolina, Wofford, The Citadel, etc.) wholly and comprehensively use their respective NCAA/NAIA/NJCAA rulesets, with no exceptions or exemptions made. I don't know if any Independent Pro or MiLB clubs are in South Carolina (I believe Columbia, IIRC), but I'm sure they don't have any exemptions made in OBR that they use. 

The complication comes from, then, the amateur levels (non-collegiate), wherein umpires are given the (latitude? responsibility? investiture?) to preemptively call (a) Runner(s) Out for such things as missed base touches or improper tag-ups, while the ball is Live, regardless of an impending appeal or not. Of course, within NFHS, the ball need not be Live to conduct an appeal (which is, IMEO, a much more effective process for amateurs). The conflict stems from amateurs playing under NFHS (and -based derivatives) or OBR (and such derivatives and modifications, eg. Cal Ripken or American Legion or USSSA). 

[The Man in Blue]

20 hours ago, MadMax said:

Uhm... no. I think you're misspeaking, specifically in regards to how the state of South Carolina adjudicates baseball in regards to these sort of plays. 

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but NCAA/NAIA/NJCAA games played within South Carolina (eg. Clemson, U of South Carolina, Coastal Carolina, Wofford, The Citadel, etc.) wholly and comprehensively use their respective NCAA/NAIA/NJCAA rulesets, with no exceptions or exemptions made. I don't know if any Independent Pro or MiLB clubs are in South Carolina (I believe Columbia, IIRC), but I'm sure they don't have any exemptions made in OBR that they use. 

The complication comes from, then, the amateur levels (non-collegiate), wherein umpires are given the (latitude? responsibility? investiture?) to preemptively call (a) Runner(s) Out for such things as missed base touches or improper tag-ups, while the ball is Live, regardless of an impending appeal or not. Of course, within NFHS, the ball need not be Live to conduct an appeal (which is, IMEO, a much more effective process for amateurs). The conflict stems from amateurs playing under NFHS (and -based derivatives) or OBR (and such derivatives and modifications, eg. Cal Ripken or American Legion or USSSA). 

 

Not misspeaking that I am aware of.  When we talk about states, I am assuming (ASS-U-ME) we are talking NFHS state affiliates.

NFHS allows dead ball appeals.  South Carolina High School League reportedly made a state adoption (no dead ball appeals) that is being misunderstood, misused, or misrepresented as umpires should ignore the rule book on appeal plays.

No different than any state adoption.  A few years back Kentucky High School Athletic Association made a softball adoption (not sure if baseball joined in) that a catcher could not remove their helmet when chasing a fly ball.  Not all state adoptions make sense.