Learn something new everyday

[DevildogUmp]

Lets start with this is Indiana High School specific and cannot be found in the FED rulebook.

Anyway, Varsity game, starting pitcher goes into the bottom of the 6th and hits his max pitch count for the day (as set down by the state of Indiana). Quick caveat, Indiana has stated numerous times that umpires have ZERO responsibilities in regard to pitch counts and we are to direct coaches/ADs/etc to the state office if they have questions/protests/concerns regarding pitch counts. Manager comes out and replaces the pitcher, I make my changes, announce the change, and at 6 warm-up throws tell the catcher 2 more. Just your standard run of the mill pitching change. As I say 2 more, manager counters that because his starting pitcher pitched his maximum pitches, the relief pitcher gets as many warm-ups as he needs. I don't agree and we stop at 8.

After the sixth, manager (very professionally) comes out and says we were both wrong and the relief pitcher gets 16 warm-up throws. I tell him the only time you get more than 8 is injury/ejection/inclement weather. Manager, still calmly and professionally, produces the pitch count rule that the state sends out to the schools and says it is right here, please check the rule book after the game. I tell him it is not in the rule book, because it is a state modification, but I would get with my association after the game. While enjoying my post-game Culvers, I text my association officers and training staff and no one has ever heard of this (remember, umpires are specifically directed not to have anything to do with pitch counts). So, I email the coach and ask him to email me the documentation that he received from the state. 

Low and behold, paragraph b of the state modification states that when a pitcher is pulled after hitting any pitch count level maximum (there are apparently 5 thresholds) his relief gets 16 warm-up throws. First time I have ever had this come up in a game. Waiting to hear back from the association on how we are going to handle this if it ever comes up again since we don't have dedicated pitch counters in regular season (each school is responsible for their own). Based on this rule, all a coach has to do is say "my pitcher was at a level maximum" and get 8 additional warm-ups for the reliever, all we really have to go on is his pitch count.

Like the title says, learn something new everyday.

[SeeingEyeDog]

Culvers...jeez...there's post-game and then...there's Culvers.

@DevildogUmp, so you had a communication breakdown it seems. I don't know how your association/assigner structure is setup but, I personally would not have emailed the coach directly on this. I would have encouraged your association leadership and/or your assigners to contact the state athletic association to clarify this, however...

Since you "donned your deerstalker cap, inverness cape, sparked up your Meerschaum pipe and polished up your magnifying glass" and got the goods...I would still circle back to your leadership and have them communicate out that same email that was sent to the coaches so that all the umpires working in that market understand this special modification. 2 more cents...I would also get feedback to your state athletic association that anytime they have a modification like this, it should either be presented in the online pre-season certification video for all coaches and umpires OR sent out via email...or both.

The bureaucracy needs to know that the best written modifications are wasted if they aren't notifying umpires because absent documentation, we have to default to the rules governing the game which as you cited are clear on this situation.

~Dawg

[The Man in Blue]

Ummm . . . so . . . pitch counts are a concern to prevent overuse . . . so we give him twice the usual number of warmups?

[SeeingEyeDog]

8 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said:

Ummm . . . so . . . pitch counts are a concern to prevent overuse . . . so we give him twice the usual number of warmups?

The logic of YOUR logic about THEIR...illogicality (is that word?) is fantastic, brother...

~Dawg 

[umpstu]

On 5/2/2024 at 8:12 PM, DevildogUmp said:

Lets start with this is Indiana High School specific and cannot be found in the FED rulebook.

Anyway, Varsity game, starting pitcher goes into the bottom of the 6th and hits his max pitch count for the day (as set down by the state of Indiana). Quick caveat, Indiana has stated numerous times that umpires have ZERO responsibilities in regard to pitch counts and we are to direct coaches/ADs/etc to the state office if they have questions/protests/concerns regarding pitch counts. Manager comes out and replaces the pitcher, I make my changes, announce the change, and at 6 warm-up throws tell the catcher 2 more. Just your standard run of the mill pitching change. As I say 2 more, manager counters that because his starting pitcher pitched his maximum pitches, the relief pitcher gets as many warm-ups as he needs. I don't agree and we stop at 8.

After the sixth, manager (very professionally) comes out and says we were both wrong and the relief pitcher gets 16 warm-up throws. I tell him the only time you get more than 8 is injury/ejection/inclement weather. Manager, still calmly and professionally, produces the pitch count rule that the state sends out to the schools and says it is right here, please check the rule book after the game. I tell him it is not in the rule book, because it is a state modification, but I would get with my association after the game. While enjoying my post-game Culvers, I text my association officers and training staff and no one has ever heard of this (remember, umpires are specifically directed not to have anything to do with pitch counts). So, I email the coach and ask him to email me the documentation that he received from the state. 

Low and behold, paragraph b of the state modification states that when a pitcher is pulled after hitting any pitch count level maximum (there are apparently 5 thresholds) his relief gets 16 warm-up throws. First time I have ever had this come up in a game. Waiting to hear back from the association on how we are going to handle this if it ever comes up again since we don't have dedicated pitch counters in regular season (each school is responsible for their own). Based on this rule, all a coach has to do is say "my pitcher was at a level maximum" and get 8 additional warm-ups for the reliever, all we really have to go on is his pitch count.

Like the title says, learn something new everyday.

Love a Culver's butter burger. Plus they have really good fries.

[MadMax]

13 hours ago, umpstu said:

Plus they have really good fries. 

FIFY. The Cheese curds  are the best outside-of-(my home)-state (they’re from my home state, which helps 🐄). 

And I’ll take their burgers over any FFF burger, from anywhere… save maybe Five Guys. 

On 5/2/2024 at 10:12 PM, DevildogUmp said:

Lo and behold, paragraph b of the state modification states that when a pitcher is pulled after hitting any pitch count level maximum (there are apparently 5 thresholds) his relief gets 16 warm-up throws.

Oh swell. 
My state (of HS work, AZ) implements their own modifications, and it speeds up the game (a. 20-sec action clock, b. 90-sec between innings clock, c. 6 DC’s per 7 innings, d. Balks are Live, etc.), and TPTB lose their s#!t. 

Indiana – where the f*€king committee is headquartered – slips this little gem in there, on what amounts to be a photocopied, stapled on tagalong to the manual, that slows the game down to a veritable crawl, and no one seems to care, or even be bothered to run a POE notice about it??! 🤨 

Figures. 

[BigBlue4u]

On 5/2/2024 at 8:12 PM, DevildogUmp said:

After the sixth, manager (very professionally) comes out and says we were both wrong and the relief pitcher gets 16 warm-up throws. I tell him the only time you get more than 8 is injury/ejection/inclement weather.

Good point.  Since it would be obvious that a pitcher is nearing the pitch count rule, it would also seem to be obvious the coach should have the relief pitcher warming up in a timely manner.