FED, Bases loaded and a swinging bunt...where do we take this?

[SeeingEyeDog]

The swinging bunt rolls just beyond the dirt circle on a vector for 3B in fair territory where it is touched by F2 who then steps on the plate and we have an out. My partner on the plate took this play by coming up the 3B line to adjudicate the fair/foul first and foremost. F2 had to work around him in an awkward way. I had no contact by F2 with PU and neither did my partner in post-game, it just looked awkward and the kid had great footwork and awareness and made a great heads up play.

Is this play best taken from 3B line extended? Or do you then risk being screened by F2, R3 and or F1? Where do we have the best credibility, angle and wedge to possibly have to make a call on a possible tag of R3?

~Dawg

[The Man in Blue]

I'm going 3BLX on that.  Yes, there is a risk of being screened so you do need to move with it, but I'd rather risk that than accidentally becoming a bumper in the play.

I'm not sure why you would come up third with a runner coming in at you ... 

[maven]

Definitely 3BLX. Stay out of the damn way! Officiating the back side of action at the plate is quite undesirable.

Read step to avoid screening, which will also open us up for a possible swipe on R3. Losing the look down the line is a compromise we should make here.

[Kevin_K]

On 5/9/2023 at 10:41 PM, SeeingEyeDog said:

Is this play best taken from 3B line extended? Or do you then risk being screened by F2, R3 and or F1? Where do we have the best credibility, angle and wedge to possibly have to make a call on a possible tag of R3?

~Dawg

There's your answer for the tag. 

If F2 is moving up the 3BL, I'm going to move with him, staying about 3-5 feet behind him. He's taking you to the ball and the potential swipe tag as R3 heads for the plate. In all likelihood you will end up in fair territory in front of the plate. Wherever F2 moves to make a tag keep the distance and rotate with him to keep an optimal view of where the tag will be.

I attended this camp where I learned about the wedge

While this video does not have a bunt involved, it's pretty good at explaining and showing the wedge mechanic.

Here's a good article on the wedge

[SeeingEyeDog]

@Kevin_K, the trouble with this play is...it "should be" a force but, we know things happen. Force plays frequently can become tag plays so, I like your thought here of letting the players take you to the play. When I originally wrote this, I thought maybe coming straight out in front of the plate might be best. We sacrifice some angle on fair/foul but we would then have a great look at a force play OR wedging up a tag with little to no additional movement when the play is being made which is the proper mechanic and look. If we take it 3BX and then it becomes a tag play, getting to the wedge from 3BX and then be still for the look at the actual play is difficult. Pause, read, react here for sure...

~Dawg

[Kevin_K]

@SeeingEyeDog...Would this play be a typical force out?

The play I am seeing has F2 up the line, perhaps a few steps from HP with R3 moving on contact. I am not sure F2 would have the time to retreat to HP for a "simple" force out. I don't think using the wedge would sacrifice a look at fair/foul unless the ball was tight to the line or had a snoot full of English on it.

I think this is a play where instinct, experience, and solid mechanics will help each umpire just umpire the play as it develops making adjustments as the actions of the players dictate.

[Catch18]

I had this play a couple nights ago. Swinging bunt hits the plate and goes straight up, no one is really moving with a sense of urgency except the catcher. He fields the ball as it’s coming down from 15’ish high and it’s maybe 6” directly in front of the plate - so I signal fair.

I called this from about 3’ behind point of plate, and by the time a play was happening, the order of bodies was me, catcher, BR all basically standing in a row up the 1BL. I tried to take a read step to the side, but couldn’t see a tag attempt for dick, so I signaled no tag (fortunately, the reaction of everybody proved me right). We pregamed tags near the plate and I would take some, situation depending. My partner was in C, so it’s important to pregame these tag plays near the plate. My partner had a perpendicular angle on this and can see a tag from the side.

[MadMax]

On 5/13/2023 at 5:45 PM, Catch18 said:

My partner was in C, so it’s important to pregame these tag plays near the plate. My partner had a perpendicular angle on this and can see a tag from the side.

@Catch18, I hate to break this to you, but there is nothing for BU in this play to do in regards to what’s going on at the plate*. Unless BU reads R3 throwing on the brakes and retreating post-haste to 3B, and a true throw from F2 to F5, either for a play or to start a run-down, then BU needs to be beating tracks across the centerline (from plate to 2B) towards 1B for a potential play at 1B, BR’s arrival and touch of 1B, a possible backpick to 1B from the play at the plate, and then potentially taking BR to 2B, or positioning for plays upon other Runners. His last priority – which isn’t even a priority at all – is helping you on a tag validation at the plate. 

You’re on your own on this one. 

Don’t fret. I, too, have/had a tendency to go 1BLX, primarily because (as a former catcher) I know how important RLI is, and I have this urge to help on pulled foot / swipe tag (at 1B). It’s taken a trip to HW Umpire School and one of my fellow Vultures to break me of that habit, and encourage (HWUS: direct) me to go:

1. Point of Plate if R3 is forced in, and only enact a bold read step thru the LHBBx if I read the F2 in trouble and attempting a tag instead of touching the plate. Barring that, stay POP, and step towards 1BLX to observe RLI, pulled foot / swipe tag on BR. 
2. If R3 is not forced in, step to the “root” of 3BLX (it’s in the LHBBx), judge Fair/Foul accordingly, then immediately acquire R3’s position in space. This will influence how F2 – or even a crashing F1, F5 or F3 – is going to attempt to tag R3… 
3. If the fielder(s) abort a play on R3, then from 3BLX (or its root), watch the touch of the plate, and then perform a “peer down a subway tunnel”; you allow a true throw to turn you and observe down the 1BL and look for RLI, pulled foot or swipe tag. 

I’m not going to outright tell you not to pre-game it, but it is largely unwarranted and unnecessary. 

*- Certain amateur rule sets have a “no headfirst slide at home plate” addition, and there are instances where a PU is so closely anticipating a play at the plate, and all its “typical” elements, that he may/may not see “the forest thru the trees”, and just simply miss a blatant head-first slide. We cannot ignore this, if we see it as a BU, as that is a Rule violation. 

[Catch18]

[mention=4533]Catch18[/mention], I hate to break this to you, but there is nothing for BU in this play to do in regards to what’s going on at the plate*. Unless BU reads R3 throwing on the brakes and retreating post-haste to 3B, and a true throw from F2 to F5, either for a play or to start a run-down, then BU needs to be beating tracks across the centerline (from plate to 2B) towards 1B for a potential play at 1B, BR’s arrival and touch of 1B, a possible backpick to 1B from the play at the plate, and then potentially taking BR to 2B, or positioning for plays upon other Runners. His last priority – which isn’t even a priority at all – is helping you on a tag validation at the plate. 
You’re on your own on this one. 
Don’t fret. I, too, have/had a tendency to go 1BLX, primarily because (as a former catcher) I know how important RLI is, and I have this urge to help on pulled foot / swipe tag (at 1B). It’s taken a trip to HW Umpire School and one of my fellow Vultures to break me of that habit, and encourage (HWUS: direct) me to go:

1. Point of Plate if R3 is forced in, and only enact a bold read step thru the LHBBx if I read the F2 in trouble and attempting a tag instead of touching the plate. Barring that, stay POP, and step towards 1BLX to observe RLI, pulled foot / swipe tag on BR. 
2. If R3 is not forced in, step to the “root” of 3BLX (it’s in the LHBBx), judge Fair/Foul accordingly, then immediately acquire R3’s position in space. This will influence how F2 – or even a crashing F1, F5 or F3 – is going to attempt to tag R3… 
3. If the fielder(s) abort a play on R3, then from 3BLX (or its root), watch the touch of the plate, and then perform a “peer down a subway tunnel”; you allow a true throw to turn you and observe down the 1BL and look for RLI, pulled foot or swipe tag. 

I’m not going to outright tell you not to pre-game it, but it is largely unwarranted and unnecessary. 
*- Certain amateur rule sets have a “no headfirst slide at home plate” addition, and there are instances where a PU is so closely anticipating a play at the plate, and all its “typical” elements, that he may/may not see “the forest thru the trees”, and just simply miss a blatant head-first slide. We cannot ignore this, if we see it as a BU, as that is a Rule violation. 

He didn’t do anything (make a call), nor did I want him to do anything, on the play. I didn’t say he should.

What I said was we pregamed who has the call near the plate - me. What I said was….and maybe I could have explained better….was if I’m screened and cannot see a swipe tag (see: flipped situation @ first base), and we go through the rigamarole of coaches “asking for help” because I can’t see a tag, U1 in C (and yes as he’s breaking to make a call at first) has a perpendicular view to it and we can conference if we do choose. Who here has an issue with that process?

I’m not one of those noobs or old timers who when they don’t/can’t make a call, just points to his partner and says, “what do you have.” Thanks.