New U1 Mechanic?

[Thunderheads]

So, .. watching the Tiger's Red Sox game last night ... and glancing up I noticed a play at first that was taken by Manny Gonzalez in foul territory.  Ok, no big deal, seen it before, it can happen ...

Later in the game, another play at first, ...... AGAIN, taken in foul territory.  Hmmmm.   Then again, and again, and again .... 

Ok wait ... what's going on?  Anyone else notice this last night, or, in any other game so far this season?  This is the first I've seen this.  Is this new?

[JonnyCat]

From what I understand from a former MLB umpire, it is a new technique. The idea behind the mechanic is to use the "wedge" on plays at 1B. For a right-handed F3, foul is where the wedge would mostly be. I've noticed it a lot too in MLB games. Of course, this is a luxury in the 4 man system.

FWIW, I've never liked "getting a 90 degree from the throw" for plays at 1B". It always seemed to be bordering on getting straight-lined on plays, especially if U1 over-rotated. We recently went to teaching 2SF at the clinics I instruct at. I find it to be so much better, and the results from our umpires are better, too. It's really improved my game at 1B.

[Thunderheads]

1 hour ago, JonnyCat said:

From what I understand from a former MLB umpire, it is a new technique. The idea behind the mechanic is to use the "wedge" on plays at 1B. For a right-handed F3, foul is where the wedge would mostly be. I've noticed it a lot too in MLB games. Of course, this is a luxury in the 4 man system.

FWIW, I've never liked "getting a 90 degree from the throw" for plays at 1B". It always seemed to be bordering on getting straight-lined on plays, especially if U1 over-rotated. We recently went to teaching 2SF at the clinics I instruct at. I find it to be so much better, and the results from our umpires are better, too. It's really improved my game at 1B.

Ok ... 'wedge' on a throw to first/play at first?  And, RH F3?  Sorry, that confuses me ... why would it matter?

Also, sorry ... 2SF?   ( 2 steps fair)? 

[JonnyCat]

6 minutes ago, Thunderheads said:

Ok ... 'wedge' on a throw to first/play at first?  And, RH F3?  Sorry, that confuses me ... why would it matter?

Also, sorry ... 2SF?   ( 2 steps fair)? 

Being in the "wedge" or hip pocket of F3 gives you a better look of the fielders foot on the bag, as well as, a better look at the runners touch of the bag. That's the idea any way. Right handed F3, you would have to be in foul territory to be on his hip pocket. Not that it really matters, the idea is being in foul territory gives you a better look at the bag. That is ultimately what you're trying to see. It's the same concept as taking a play at the plate for instance. Use the wedge to see the "action area" of the play. Even though a play at first is not like a tag play at HP, the idea is to get in position for a better look. It's really only doable in 4 man. Not sure if you could use this method in 3 man, as I don't do much of that.

Yes, 2 steps fair. Much better look at the bag. The reason I don't like the 90 degree is that often I felt like you're straight-lined with the fielder, then the runner behind him. I felt like in many plays, the fielders legs of feet were in the way of seeing the runners touch.

After using 2 steps fair, the view is so much better. I encourage any umpire to try it and see. So far, every umpire I know that uses that technique loves it.

[Thunderheads]

Being in the "wedge" or hip pocket of F3 gives you a better look of the fielders foot on the bag, as well as, a better look at the runners touch of the bag. That's the idea any way. Right handed F3, you would have to be in foul territory to be on his hip pocket. Not that it really matters, the idea is being in foul territory gives you a better look at the bag. That is ultimately what you're trying to see. It's the same concept as taking a play at the plate for instance. Use the wedge to see the "action area" of the play. Even though a play at first is not like a tag play at HP, the idea is to get in position for a better look. It's really only doable in 4 man. Not sure if you could use this method in 3 man, as I don't do much of that.
Yes, 2 steps fair. Much better look at the bag. The reason I don't like the 90 degree is that often I felt like you're straight-lined with the fielder, then the runner behind him. I felt like in many plays, the fielders legs of feet were in the way of seeing the runners touch.
After using 2 steps fair, the view is so much better. I encourage any umpire to try it and see. So far, every umpire I know that uses that technique loves it.

Ahhh got it, thanks!!!!

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[Richvee]

Add me to the 2sf club. Learned it at a clinic and I love it. Best look for a pulled foot, and if the throw is up the line, one more step fair and you got that one too. The swipe tag on the back takes some adjustment and good read to get in a spot for a good look. 

[Marcus6]

On 6/23/2022 at 4:47 PM, Thunderheads said:

So, .. watching the Tiger's Red Sox game last night ... and glancing up I noticed a play at first that was taken by Manny Gonzalez in foul territory.  Ok, no big deal, seen it before, it can happen ...

Later in the game, another play at first, ...... AGAIN, taken in foul territory.  Hmmmm.   Then again, and again, and again .... 

Ok wait ... what's going on?  Anyone else notice this last night, or, in any other game so far this season?  This is the first I've seen this.  Is this new?

I believe Gerry Davis mentioned this on an old podcast episode (which hes stopped updating since retiring last fall) and he mentioned how he too was taking this approach on plays at first.  Another aspect of his logic was if hes in 4 man, he doesn't need to worry about getting to 2B or anything like that on a play in the infield at 1B.  Interesting approach which makes sense.

[ArchAngel72]

So is that specific to a 4 man thing or is it also a possible 2 man or 3 man move also?

[noumpere]

3 minutes ago, ArchAngel72 said:

So is that specific to a 4 man thing or is it also a possible 2 man or 3 man move also?

It can be used in 3-man with no runners on.  With runners, U1 has to take BR to second so shouldn't use it.

Can be used in 2-man, but PU then needs to take BR to second -- so have an experienced PU *and* use it only when you are *forced* into foul territory -- in my experience, way too many use way too often when they aren't really forced.

 

And, no matter the number of umpires, recognize that many BRs touch first and the drift into foul territory (so as not to be judged as making an attempt to second (ignoring the rule specifics here); you don't want to get run over.

Personally, on 99% of the plays, 2SF works just as well with going foul with far fewer problems.