not seeing if a run scored

[ErichKeane]

So, a situation that came up last night, but resolved itself (see the end), but had me wondering what I could have done. R1 and R2, hit to the OF. Throw goes into 3B for a quick rundown, so I Hussle out (1man!) to get it, and fortunately I did, as it was a close play/tag. I bang the out and turn around and see R2 (though, with delay to make sure the fielder held onto the ball) to see the runner had crossed the plate.

OHC asks me if I had the run scoring, saying he knew I didn't see it, but he DID beat it. I double check with home book (Offensive teams book), and the confirm.

DHC asks if the run counted, and I told the truth, I didn't see it, so went by my scorekeepers judgement on it. He said, "well, the run shouldn't have counted, the out happened first." I apologized and said I had to defer to the book, so I didn't have another way to deal with it.

He grumbled, and asked his book what they got for score that inning, and she said it, and he asked her, "wait, did you have that last run counting? Why?". She said, "because he clearly crossed the plate before the out!"

DHC turns to me and says, "welp, I stand corrected!".

I felt like poop having to call it that way at the time, and would like to avoid it next time. Any advice for next time?

[noumpere]

There's a reason games with more importance use more umpires.  There are holes in almost any system, and the number and size of the holes increases the fewer umpires you have.

 

You *might* be able to take a peek during part of the run down (or during some other play) to see where the runner is and to then judge, based on timing, the liklihood that the runner crossed the plate before the out.

 

Nothing else you can do.

[umpstu]

42 minutes ago, ErichKeane said:

So, a situation that came up last night, but resolved itself (see the end), but had me wondering what I could have done. R1 and R2, hit to the OF. Throw goes into 3B for a quick rundown, so I Hussle out (1man!) to get it, and fortunately I did, as it was a close play/tag. I bang the out and turn around and see R2 (though, with delay to make sure the fielder held onto the ball) to see the runner had crossed the plate.

OHC asks me if I had the run scoring, saying he knew I didn't see it, but he DID beat it. I double check with home book (Offensive teams book), and the confirm.

DHC asks if the run counted, and I told the truth, I didn't see it, so went by my scorekeepers judgement on it. He said, "well, the run shouldn't have counted, the out happened first." I apologized and said I had to defer to the book, so I didn't have another way to deal with it.

He grumbled, and asked his book what they got for score that inning, and she said it, and he asked her, "wait, did you have that last run counting? Why?". She said, "because he clearly crossed the plate before the out!"

DHC turns to me and says, "welp, I stand corrected!".

I felt like poop having to call it that way at the time, and would like to avoid it next time. Any advice for next time?

Really nothing you could do different.  Remember, angle over distance.  In your situation I don't know what you could have done different.  I had to do a Jr College game one man once and had a R1 and R3 situation and team attempted a double steal by having R1 get in a rundown.  I let the coach know how very happy I was that he would do that to me. A real dick move by that coach, who I really enjoyed working his games.

 

 

 

[MadMax]

53 minutes ago, ErichKeane said:

I felt like poop having to call it that way at the time, and would like to avoid it next time.

Easy to do. Don’t feel like poop 💩, and don’t apologize. You’re working solo. 

53 minutes ago, ErichKeane said:

Any advice for next time?

Yup. Instead of rapidly calling an Out (with either vocal or mechanic), do this: 

• Point at and call “Tag!” when it happens… 
• Steal glance towards Home Plate; if Runner short of HP, you now know he won’t be scored; if Runner is beyond plate, he is to be scored… 
• Promptly turn focus back to Fielder, Ball, and Runner; if Fielder has maintained possession, mechanic Out, and score/deny accordingly; if Fielder has lost the ball, don’t mechanic an Out, mechanic “bobble” or “ball on ground”, and then signal/call Safe or Out when appropriate. 

It is far, far easier to recover/correct a call of “Tag” than a call of “Out”, if the ball comes free by bobble or drop. 

[ErichKeane]

2 hours ago, MadMax said:

Easy to do. Don’t feel like poop 💩, and don’t apologize. You’re working solo. 

Yup. Instead of rapidly calling an Out (with either vocal or mechanic), do this: 

• Point at and call “Tag!” when it happens… 
• Steal glance towards Home Plate; if Runner short of HP, you now know he won’t be scored; if Runner is beyond plate, he is to be scored… 
• Promptly turn focus back to Fielder, Ball, and Runner; if Fielder has maintained possession, mechanic Out, and score/deny accordingly; if Fielder has lost the ball, don’t mechanic an Out, mechanic “bobble” or “ball on ground”, and then signal/call Safe or Out when appropriate. 

It is far, far easier to recover/correct a call of “Tag” than a call of “Out”, if the ball comes free by bobble or drop. 

Thank you! I'll give that mechanic a shot! And thank you all on the feedback. I end up working a bunch of 1 man and try to give the game the best I got, so the advice on 1 man hustle mechanics is always appreciated!

[Jimurray]

3 hours ago, ErichKeane said:

So, a situation that came up last night, but resolved itself (see the end), but had me wondering what I could have done. R1 and R2, hit to the OF. Throw goes into 3B for a quick rundown, so I Hussle out (1man!) to get it, and fortunately I did, as it was a close play/tag. I bang the out and turn around and see R2 (though, with delay to make sure the fielder held onto the ball) to see the runner had crossed the plate.

OHC asks me if I had the run scoring, saying he knew I didn't see it, but he DID beat it. I double check with home book (Offensive teams book), and the confirm.

DHC asks if the run counted, and I told the truth, I didn't see it, so went by my scorekeepers judgement on it. He said, "well, the run shouldn't have counted, the out happened first." I apologized and said I had to defer to the book, so I didn't have another way to deal with it.

He grumbled, and asked his book what they got for score that inning, and she said it, and he asked her, "wait, did you have that last run counting? Why?". She said, "because he clearly crossed the plate before the out!"

DHC turns to me and says, "welp, I stand corrected!".

I felt like poop having to call it that way at the time, and would like to avoid it next time. Any advice for next time?

Yes, runners in scoring position, signal your 3,2,1, or 0 umpires in the field that you are staying home. That rundown could have been truncated by a 4 4 4 call to get R2. It's 1 man, call the rundown long distance. You should feel like poop for feeling like poop when you do your best as one man. This sounds like a friendly environment so any take away would not apply but asking scorekeepers would not be recommended.

[Jimurray]

40 minutes ago, ErichKeane said:

Thank you! I'll give that mechanic a shot! And thank you all on the feedback. I end up working a bunch of 1 man and try to give the game the best I got, so the advice on 1 man hustle mechanics is always appreciated!

Don't hustle. Move rapidly to a best vantage point or don't move to take in all of the happenings. Have you heard of false hustle?

[ErichKeane]

3 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

Don't hustle. Move rapidly to a best vantage point or don't move to take in all of the happenings. Have you heard of false hustle?

Nope, this is a new term to me.  I find getting a rundown tag right requires I be pretty close and have a good angle (which often means, I have to be close to the line to step in line with the play).  I HATE rundowns/backside tag plays for exactly that reason.

[Jimurray]

3 minutes ago, ErichKeane said:

Nope, this is a new term to me.  I find getting a rundown tag right requires I be pretty close and have a good angle (which often means, I have to be close to the line to step in line with the play).  I HATE rundowns/backside tag plays for exactly that reason.

False hustle is an umpire mindlessly hustling for appearances but not a good idea in the circumstances of the game and number of umpires. Would you like to be in the position to call the out in the rundown when they abort and respond to the 4 4 4 call and throw home. It's one effin umpire. Do not false hustle mindlessly to give a good appearance. Use your brain.