Balk? Must separate hands when stepping off?

[Guest Guest Brian]

Hello.  HP Umpire is stating that our pitcher who stepped off the rubber, balked because he did not separate his hands when faking the play to hold the runner at 1st (in the stretch/set position).  I'm not angry and he called it on both teams.  The opposing coaches and our coaches were confused and I've never had this called on us before.  14U with USSSA and MLB rules.  All I can find is a reference to "when the pitcher disengages the rubber, he must drop his hands to his sides"  in the legal pitching delivery definition.  Would that apply to a balk?  Just hoping to learn a little.  Thanks!

[Jimurray]

35 minutes ago, aaluck said:

Speaking for myself... I think what you may have learned is that the ump in your game was wrong for calling a balk. But I think what you have also learned is that he read the rule and it states that what the pitchers in your game were doing is not permitted, but has no ramifications for violation. As such, his assessment of the balk was incorrect, as it apparently should be a warning, despite the fact that is not stated in the rule itself (no comment on that).

However, I think the most important thing you have (hopefully) learned is that umpiring a game is difficult. Conflicting rules, rules that really are not rules and vague and incomplete sentences/thoughts put on paper for no reason, or maybe the reason is the umpire gets to scold the player by saying 'don't do that', who knows.  

I hope you also learned that the umpire in your game clearly has put in the time to read the rules and that should be appreciated by all parents, coaches and kids out there on the field. This despite the fact he didn't get this one right.

 The umpire did not give the pitchers a chance to comply with the rule before they engaged the rubber again. Not faulting him for being a literal rule reader without training and guidance. 

[Guest Guest Brian]

Wow.  I didn't know I would stir up such a topic!  I'm not too spun up about it.  We got drilled and the extra base didn't matter too much in the grand scheme of things.  We tell our boys that right or wrong, the umpire is in charge and what he says, goes.  He did explain it to us again during the 1/2 inning break.  I never got the impression he was trying to be a jerk about it.  I was just confused since it had never been called in the almost 300 games we have been through over the seasons and years.

Umps have a hard job and have to put up with too much.  I think I know the rules fairly well.  But there is always something where I think it is one way and I go look it up, I was wrong.  The umps are usually right.  Even if I know I am right I am never going to argue on the field (I might ask what he had or saw).  Never in the history of baseball have I ever seen an ump change their mind because a coach or parent were screaming at them.  It's just 14U baseball.  Maybe if I was an MLB manager I would scream?  My boy can start umping at 15 locally and I think he wants to do that.  We will just use this as a learning opportunity.

I appreciate all the replies and have enjoyed browsing the forum!  Thank you!

[ALStripes17]

On 10/20/2020 at 12:24 PM, aaluck said:

Not to nitpick but first touching is not a penalty, nor against the rules, as the kicking team is perfectly able to touch a free kick or punt first.  It is marked with a bean bag (flags mark penalties) as a point of reference in the event we need to return to that spot--given subsequent action or penalties.

In NCAA football, kicking team first touching a scrimmage kick is considered a 'violation' and is listed under the 'Summary of Penalties' page - NCAA rule book defines 'foul' and 'violation' as both 'rules infractions' ... difference is a violation is without a prescribed penalty. Yes, in the NFHS rulebook, 'first touching' is mentioned as 'having results very similar to a penalty but is not classified as a foul'

The point @maven was making is that there are prescriptions in the rule book that define the penalty of a violation. There are issues in the rule book that do not have a direct penalty associated with it and are typically the 'dont do that' prescriptions.

As an aside, I would even challenge the applicability of your sidenote that says "flags mark penalties". Flags mark 'potential fouls'. The same way the whistle doesn't always make the ball dead.

[aaluck]

14 minutes ago, ALStripes17 said:

In NCAA football, kicking team first touching a scrimmage kick is considered a 'violation' and is listed under the 'Summary of Penalties' page - NCAA rule book defines 'foul' and 'violation' as both 'rules infractions' ... difference is a violation is without a prescribed penalty. Yes, in the NFHS rulebook, 'first touching' is mentioned as 'having results very similar to a penalty but is not classified as a foul'

The point @maven was making is that there are prescriptions in the rule book that define the penalty of a violation. There are issues in the rule book that do not have a direct penalty associated with it and are typically the 'dont do that' prescriptions.

As an aside, I would even challenge the applicability of your sidenote that says "flags mark penalties". Flags mark 'potential fouls'. The same way the whistle doesn't always make the ball dead.

Kyle, my friend. I'd debate you (and @maven ) but since you taught me how to be an umpire back here in Alabama, years and years ago, and umpired my son's games from six to high school--I know better. Plus, I really do not know anything about NCAA rules.  It good to see you back here and I hope you are doing well. Our association sure misses you.