You are out of position

[BigVic69]

A.play somewhere and the umpire makes a call.

The manager wishes to appeal that the umpire making the call was "out of position" and the wrong call was made.

A percieved "out of position" is not appealable and since you cannot tell.me what the fielder did to cause the appeal, we role on. Am I correct?

What is appealable then:

Misapplication of a rule

Foot.off the bag

Dropped ball

???

[Jimurray]

18 minutes ago, BigVic69 said:

A.play somewhere and the umpire makes a call.

The manager wishes to appeal that the umpire making the call was "out of position" and the wrong call was made.

A percieved "out of position" is not appealable and since you cannot tell.me what the fielder did to cause the appeal, we role on. Am I correct?

What is appealable then:

Misapplication of a rule

Foot.off the bag

Dropped ball

???

Missed bases, leaving early, check swings, MYTAB are appealable. 

[The Short Umpire]

The situation you are describing is not an appeal play, “An appeal is the act of a fielder in claiming violation of the rules by the offensive team.” (OBR Definitions of Terms). The situation you are talking about is a “Crew Consultation and Getting the Play Right.” This is Section 8.4 of the MiLB Umpire Manual and 8.02 of the OBR. 

The manual says, 

“Plays such as the following lend themselves to the philosopy described on the previous page: 

1. Deciding whether a fly ball that left the playing field was fair or foul.

2. Deciding whether a batted ball left the playing field for a homerun or a ground rule double.

3. Cases where a foul tip is dropped by the catcher, causing i t to become a foul. 

4. Cases when an umpire clearly errs in judgment becasue a ball is dropped or juggled after a tag or force.

5. Spectator interference.

6. Balks called by an umpire who clearly did not realize the pitcher’s foot was off the rubber.”

So these are a few of the situations that would lend themselves to needing more information from or partner. You also mentioned a pulled foot. 

 

The manual does also say however, “An umpire is urged to seek help when that umpire’s view is blocked or positioning prevents such umpire from seeing crucial elements of a play. An umpire is also encouraged to seek help in instances when that umpire has doubt and a partner has additional information that could lead to a proper ruling.” 

So if positioning is truly an issue, for example you got too far into the 3rd base cutout for a play when there is a runner on first and the defense throws to first first when they see the BR taking off for second then a coach might have you there on saying you were out of position and would like help from the PU. 

However, if I’m in the right position and I know that I have all the information I need but a coach is claiming I couldn’t see a play just because he wants a second opinion then I am not going to allow that and there is no need to consult because it will make it look like I am getting pushed around. 

[BigVic69]

Thank you for the input.

See you on the Diamond

[maven]

8 hours ago, The Short Umpire said:

The manual does also say however, “An umpire is urged to seek help when that umpire’s view is blocked or positioning prevents such umpire from seeing crucial elements of a play. An umpire is also encouraged to seek help in instances when that umpire has doubt and a partner has additional information that could lead to a proper ruling.” 

So if positioning is truly an issue, for example you got too far into the 3rd base cutout for a play when there is a runner on first and the defense throws to first first when they see the BR taking off for second then a coach might have you there on saying you were out of position and would like help from the PU. 

However, if I’m in the right position and I know that I have all the information I need but a coach is claiming I couldn’t see a play just because he wants a second opinion then I am not going to allow that and there is no need to consult because it will make it look like I am getting pushed around. 

This is how I was taught.

The two principles in play for umpires are:

1. Own our own calls.
2. Get it right.

The first requires us to get in the proper position per the mechanics for the system we're working. That system is designed and updated to put us in the best position for 90%+ of the calls we'll see. That, of course, requires that we know and employ that system.

That leaves the < 10% of calls when we're not in the best position. For most of those, the other umpire (if any) will not be in a better position: typically, he's too far away to get a better look. Then we have to do the best we can and own our calls. That's baseball.

The second principle requires us not to be too proud: in situations where partner does in fact have a better look, go get help. A classic example: we're in B or C, throw to 1B is a bit wide to the 2B side, and it might have pulled F3 an inch off the base. 

We can even eliminate the appearance of getting pushed around: go get help before coach asks. There's a mechanic to do this "publicly" with a pulled foot (because it's so common), but we can do it "privately" when we need to. Proper application of "get it right" requires us to do just that.

[BigVic69]

Thank you for theis sage advise.

[The Man in Blue]

I cannot stress enough what @The Short Umpire said ... since an appeal play is a very specific thing in the rule book, it is critical to use the proper verbiage and to coach the coaches on this.

Doing so helps to diffuse situations and provides opportunity to help coaches learn how to interact with umpires.  Seems as I have this conversation several times each season with newer coaches and it usually ends with “I didn’t know that, thank you.”