Catch or no Catch

[Storm13]

I was at a field last night that had an out of play line all the way from the dugout to the fence and there was a question about the way the line was played.  My partner was trying to tell me that you could have one foot out of play and make a catch and I said that you had to be in play to make a legal catch.  Where can I find a rule or case about this situation?  If a player had one foot in the dugout and one out you would not consider that a catch.  I found the ruling in OBR but see nothing in FED about this.  Thanks in advance for your help.  

[noumpere]

2.9.1 SITUATION C: B1 hits a fly ball to F8. F8 gets the ball in his hands but it is dropped (a) when he falls
to the ground and rolls over; or (b) when he collides with a fielder or a wall; or (c) when he starts to
throw to the infield. RULING: In (a) and (b), it is not a catch. In (c), it is a legal catch if an umpire rules
that the ball was dropped as the fielder voluntarily removed the ball from the glove. COMMENT: The
playing field includes both fair and foul playing territory. Any other areas beyond the playing field are
defined as being outside the playing field (dead-ball area). Any wall, fence, barricade, rope, wire, marked
or imaginary line is considered a part of the playing field. Any areas beyond those boundaries are
outside the playing field. A fielder's status, generally, is determined by the location of his feet, and when
a foot is touching a boundary line or the playing field inside the boundary line, he has not left the playing
field, even though his other foot might be in contact with the area beyond the boundary line. Umpires
may use the following guidelines to determine the status of a fielder following the catch of a batted or
thrown live ball: (1) It is a catch when he has one or both feet touching the playing field, or with both
feet in flight prior to his touching any dead-ball area. (2) If after making the catch both feet are entirely
in a dead-ball area, the ball becomes dead. (3) If the ball is caught after he has established his position
outside the playing field, it is not a legal catch. Also remember that whenever a dead ball follows a
catch, there are instances when one or more runners may be awarded bases. (5-1-1i, 8-3-3d)

[Senor Azul]

I hope you have a Case Book. The plays you want to read are 2.9.1 Situation C (particularly the Comment following the scenarios), 5.1.1 Situation L, and 5.1.1 Situation P. If you don’t have a case book I will input them for you later. And your partner is right.

In addition there is an interpretation you should be aware of as well—

Official Interpretation:  Rumble:  A fielder who has touched dead-ball territory with both feet may, before touching the ball, reestablish himself for a legal catch by putting one foot back onto live-ball territory.

[Storm13]

So you are telling me that if a fielder has one foot in the dugout and one foot in play that they can make a catch?  This seems like a major safety issue to me.  

[scrounge]

1 hour ago, Storm13 said:

So you are telling me that if a fielder has one foot in the dugout and one foot in play that they can make a catch?  This seems like a major safety issue to me.  

If the fielder has 1 foot in play, then he's still in play. Can't say that I've ever seen a below-grade dugout in HS, so not sure it's really any more of a safety issue than any other boundary line in the vast majority of cases.

[Storm13]

the difference is that dugouts have a concrete floor that if a player is running and step on can ( and usually will) slip and fall.  

[noumpere]

21 minutes ago, Storm13 said:

the difference is that dugouts have a concrete floor that if a player is running and step on can ( and usually will) slip and fall.  

If you're asking "how do I propose a rules change?" -- send it to your state association.

If you're asking "what is the rule?" -- that's been asked and answered.

If you're asking "can I change the rule for my game because I disagree with the rule?" -- well, that's up to you (and maybe your local association)

[Jimurray]

2 hours ago, Storm13 said:

So you are telling me that if a fielder has one foot in the dugout and one foot in play that they can make a catch?  This seems like a major safety issue to me.  

While you were reviewing the OBR rule what did you discover about the lip of the dugout?

[Storm13]

59 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

While you were reviewing the OBR rule what did you discover about the lip of the dugout?

Rule 5.09(a)(1) Comment (Rule 6.05(a) Comment): A fielder may reach into, but not step into, a dugout to make a catch, and if he holds the ball, the catch shall be allowed. A fielder, in order to make a catch on a foul ball nearing a dugout or other out-of-play area (such as the stands), must have one or both feet on or over the playing surface (including the lip of the dugout) and neither foot on the ground inside the dugout or in any other out-of-play area. Ball is in play, unless the fielder, after making a legal catch, steps or falls into a dugout or other out-of-play area, in which case the ball is dead. Status of run- ners shall be as described in Rule 5.06(b)(3)(C) Comment (Rule 7.04(c) Comment).

[Jimurray]

21 minutes ago, Storm13 said:

Rule 5.09(a)(1) Comment (Rule 6.05(a) Comment): A fielder may reach into, but not step into, a dugout to make a catch, and if he holds the ball, the catch shall be allowed. A fielder, in order to make a catch on a foul ball nearing a dugout or other out-of-play area (such as the stands), must have one or both feet on or over the playing surface (including the lip of the dugout) and neither foot on the ground inside the dugout or in any other out-of-play area. Ball is in play, unless the fielder, after making a legal catch, steps or falls into a dugout or other out-of-play area, in which case the ball is dead. Status of run- ners shall be as described in Rule 5.06(b)(3)(C) Comment (Rule 7.04(c) Comment).

The red is more germane to your issue. The concrete lip is part of the live playing surface.

[Jimurray]

1 hour ago, Storm13 said:

the difference is that dugouts have a concrete floor that if a player is running and step on can ( and usually will) slip and fall.  

The fielder probably doesn't know the rule. He will be running hard and either make the catch legally, one or both feet on live territory, Illegally, both feet in dead ball territory, or legally but then carrying into dead ball territory. The only thing that would prevent cleats on concrete would be a barrier, not a modification of the rule for concrete dead ball areas.

[Mudisfun]

Huntington Beach HS... sunken dugouts...

[Jimurray]

On 4/19/2019 at 11:43 AM, Mudisfun said:

Huntington Beach HS... sunken dugouts...

So do they modify the FED rule and not allow one cleat on the lip and one on a lower step as a ground rule?

[BT_Blue]

1 hour ago, Jimurray said:

So do they modify the FED rule and not allow one cleat on the lip and one on a lower step as a ground rule?

I would guess not. Think he is just merely showing a HS field that has sunken dugouts.

My personal takeaway... it's good to play at Huntington Beach HS! Look at that thing!

[Mudisfun]

On 4/20/2019 at 12:00 PM, BT_Blue said:

I would guess not. Think he is just merely showing a HS field that has sunken dugouts.

My personal takeaway... it's good to play at Huntington Beach HS! Look at that thing!

They have a green monster (high netting) in left, due to the short fencing. Absolute awesome field to work games at.

[Jimurray]

47 minutes ago, Mudisfun said:

They have a green monster (high netting) in left, due to the short fencing. Absolute awesome field to work games at.

So no modification of "one foot in one foot out"? Fielder can have one foot on the lip and one foot on the first step to catch a foul fly.

[Mudisfun]

I honestly don't recall what the decision on that one was. Was a couple months ago that I worked there.