Dead ball?

[Guest Stephen]

Is the play/ball dead if the ump walks in front of the plate and turns his back to the field to clean off the plate? Can runners advance?

[johnnyg08]

It generally is not and yes they can. They can also be thrown out. 

No bush league business though.

[BT_Blue]

I was always under the assumption that it was. But also, that is what assuming gets me.

[Senor Azul]

Perhaps this is where the confusion started—this is what LL teaches their umpires from the 2018 Little League Rules Instruction Manual:

EXAMPLE: Runner on first, home plate umpire believing all play had ceased, turned his/her back on the pitcher to dust off home plate when: (a) runner steals second with no play being made; (b) pitcher catches runner standing off first talking with first base coach. Base umpire calls runner out.

Ruling: In both (a) and (b), put runner back on first. Although neither umpire technically called “time”, it was implied when the home plate umpire turned his/her back to the ball to dust off home plate. Anytime you clean the plate, call “time”. DO NOT rely on the concept of “Implied TIME”. Then signal and call “play” to make the ball live again. See Rule 5.11.

 

[catsbackr]

Unless one of the umpires calls time or the ball had previously gone out of play, no/yes.

[beerguy55]

On 9/15/2018 at 5:14 PM, johnnyg08 said:

It generally is not and yes they can. They can also be thrown out. 

No bush league business though.

I've never seen an umpire call an out he didn't see, or at least think he saw.

I'd say there's a big difference between solo and multi-man scenarios.   A solo umpire with his back to the play can never call a runner out, so, the advantage, and the incentive, is to the offense to take advantage of an umpire who has done this.  A solo should be putting the players back.   And I wouldn't be opposed to this happening in a two man crew either.

The fact is, any act by either team when the umpire is sweeping the plate, and obviously not paying attention, IS bush league.   One team is figuring the ump ain't paying attention so there must be time...they may even be doing nothing simply out of respect...and the other team is taking advantage of the technicality - and as I said, if the defense does tag him the ump isn't calling him out if he's sweeping the plate and doesn't see anything.

Call "my bad", put the players back, and learn from it.   Hell, use the NHL standard - it's not when they blew the whistle, it's when they "intended" to blow the whistle.   "I intended to call time".

NOTE: I am talking specifically of the scenario of cleaning the plate...momentary lapses happen and I'm not talking about those, because, typically, in those scenarios the players aren't looking for the umpire to not be paying attention to act - it's usually coincidental and unintentional.

[johnnyg08]

4 minutes ago, beerguy55 said:

I've never seen an umpire call an out he didn't see, or at least think he saw.

I'd say there's a big difference between solo and multi-man scenarios.   A solo umpire with his back to the play can never call a runner out, so, the advantage, and the incentive, is to the offense to take advantage of an umpire who has done this.  A solo should be putting the players back.   And I wouldn't be opposed to this happening in a two man crew either.

The fact is, any act by either team when the umpire is sweeping the plate, and obviously not paying attention, IS bush league.   One team is figuring the ump ain't paying attention so there must be time...they may even be doing nothing simply out of respect...and the other team is taking advantage of the technicality - and as I said, if the defense does tag him the ump isn't calling him out if he's sweeping the plate and doesn't see anything.

Call "my bad", put the players back, and learn from it.   Hell, use the NHL standard - it's not when they blew the whistle, it's when they "intended" to blow the whistle.   "I intended to call time".

NOTE: I am talking specifically of the scenario of cleaning the plate...momentary lapses happen and I'm not talking about those, because, typically, in those scenarios the players aren't looking for the umpire to not be paying attention to act - it's usually coincidental and unintentional.

Oh for sure. But I see 'over the top' mechanics to make sure they hear four counties over that we have time. It's just not necessary to be that obnoxious. 

Absolutely, send them back. No advancements or outs. Hopefully the umpire has the sense to make sure play has relaxed before turning around.