Coach asks for appeal/assistance that, unknown to him, will work against him

[beerguy55]

Two strikes on batter.

Batter check swings, and ball appears to hit knob of bat, ball goes foul.

Coach comes out and asks if you'll go to your partner for help, because coach believes pitch hit the batter's hands...batter is acting like it...you're not sold, but you're not 100%.

Now, you know that the pitch was in the strike zone when it hit the bat/hands....coach probably doesn't know that.

How do you approach your decision to honor a coach's request, knowing that if he gets the call he's looking for it will actually result in an out for him?

Do you give him the opportunity to save him from himself? Do you flat out deny his request and say you're sure of your call?  Do you quietly let him know the pitch was a strike, and do you know what that means?  Do you simply go to the partner to ensure you get the right call?   My first thought is to say, out of earshot of the catcher, "FYI, the pitch was in the strike zone when it was hit - do you still want me to talk to my partner?"

Does your approach change if the batter has done a full swing, clear to everyone in the park, and coach is asking if the pitch hit the hands?   "Really?  You'd like me to ask my partner if your batter is out?"

[Aging_Arbiter]

1st off, I believe that you realize is should be a dead ball, strike three...............go get some ice for that batter.

 

However, I do a lot of LL with the lil' fellas.  That in itself, includes NEW COACH dad, who more than likely, is clueless about 90% of the rulebook (my guesstimation, not an official statistic).  If dad hasn't been a jackwagon, and is open to a "teachable moment", I might try to quietly educate him.  Conversely, if he HAS been a jackwagon, see 1st comment above.

[ElkOil]

I'm confused. If I think it hit the knob, how will it result in an out? Are you saying I'm not sure?

If I'm sure, I'll tell the coach as much. If I have doubt, I'll go to my partner regardless of the consequences. I'm not going to coach the coach through an appeal since I don't think it would the fair thing to do. He should know that by asking he runs the risk of the call going the other way.

[stkjock]

2 hours ago, Aging_Arbiter said:

1st off, I believe that you realize is should be a dead ball, strike three...............go get some ice for that batter.

 

However, I do a lot of LL with the lil' fellas.  That in itself, includes NEW COACH dad, who more than likely, is clueless about 90% of the rulebook (my guesstimation, not an official statistic).  If dad hasn't been a jackwagon, and is open to a "teachable moment", I might try to quietly educate him.  Conversely, if he HAS been a jackwagon, see 1st comment above.

As described in the OP, knob of bat, ball foul, foul,ball no? Batter lives for another pitch. 

 

Question for @beerguy55what was the call? 

[Lindsay]

Ok, so call on field is a foul ball.
Coach would like a HBP, contending the pitch hit the batter.
Pitch was located in the strike zone, so a hit batsman would be K3.

If the coach is congenial, he'll specify the precise reason for his request for a crew consultation—possibly something like, "I thought it hit his hands, could you ask your partner?" If he specifies this request in an appropriate manner, you may respond what you had—maybe something like, "I had the pitched ball contacting the bat in the strike zone." No further explanation is necessary unless the coach asks a reasonable question in response.

Depending on the level of play and the brand of coach, this might do the trick. If not, you could go through with the consultation and if it turns out that the ball surely hit the player, the consequence shall be an out.

Managers have to think similarly about replay challenges in MLB—Scioscia just the other day opted not to challenge a time play on defense because the second base umpire incorrectly called a runner out to end the inning; had Scioscia challenged the time play, there stands a strong chance replay would have reversed the erroneous out call at second base, too. Scioscia didn't want that, so he said "no" to the challenge.

[jjb]

I had an R3, 2 outs and the inside pitch skidded past the catcher, and R3 trotted home. The coach aggressively argues that the pitch hit him. I wasn't sure, so, "OK, take your base: AND YOU! BACK to Third!" The coach was "Wait, what?" The next batter grounded to 2nd. 

....karma.... 

 

[beerguy55]

12 hours ago, stkjock said:

As described in the OP, knob of bat, ball foul, foul,ball no? Batter lives for another pitch. 

 

Question for @beerguy55what was the call? 

The initial call was foul ball.   Once coach came out, it was clear ump wasn't 100% sure about his original call - perhaps due to the injured reaction of the batter.

Coach asked ump if he could talk to his partner...ump said "sure", talked to partner, and came back with dead ball strike three, and inning over.

Best part was bases were loaded.  I laughed.

[Aging_Arbiter]

13 hours ago, stkjock said:

As described in the OP, knob of bat, ball foul, foul,ball no? Batter lives for another pitch

 

16 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

Batter check swings, and ball appears to hit knob of bat, ball goes foul.

sounds like NO call was made initially..........