HBP Issue

[LRZ]

I need some help in untangling a HBP situation (OBR rules, please). An inside pitch hits the batter, who then (and almost simultaneously) swings and fouls the pitch off. The PU awards the batter first and tells the defensive coach, who argued for a strike, that the ball was dead immediately when it hit the batter, so nothing that happened after that mattered. Is this ruling and explanation correct? Neither 5.05(a) nor 5.05(b) seem to address the situation. Thanks.

[Rich Ives]

27 minutes ago, LRZ said:

I need some help in untangling a HBP situation (OBR rules, please). An inside pitch hits the batter, who then (and almost simultaneously) swings and fouls the pitch off. The PU awards the batter first and tells the defensive coach, who argued for a strike, that the ball was dead immediately when it hit the batter, so nothing that happened after that mattered. Is this ruling and explanation correct? Neither 5.05(a) nor 5.05(b) seem to address the situation. Thanks.

How would you hit a pitch that had just hit you?

Assuming the description is correct., if the swing started after the HBP the ruling is correct.

If the swing was a reaction to being HBP or just an accidental contact as the batter was avoiding then the ruling is corrrect.

The rule says he cannot get a HBP if he is hit by a pitch that he is attempting to hit.  No attempt? No swing, yes on a HBP.

[udbrky]

Ball grazes wrist, hits the bat

 

what you got?

 

Now if he's attempting before it hit him? Inclined to rule dead ball swinging strike

[MT73]

Hit by pitch.

Dead ball.

Did he swing?

Strike and if strike 3 then the batter is out.

Was his wrist in the strike zone?

Same as above.

If not then award 1rst base..

[MT73]

2 minutes ago, MT73 said:

Hit by pitch.

Dead ball.

Did he swing?

Strike and if strike 3 then the batter is out.

Were  his wrist in the strike zone?

Same as above.

If not then award 1rst base..

 

[maineump]

On ‎5‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 1:14 PM, udbrky said:

Ball grazes wrist, hits the bat

 

what you got?

 

Now if he's attempting before it hit him? Inclined to rule dead ball swinging strike

If it hits the wrist and goes up to the bat - still held back - then HBP, if the bat is 'off the shoulder and level - DB strike. To me it has to do with where the bat is or even judging intent of the hitter. Definitely a HTBT

[LRZ]

25 minutes ago, maineump said:

Definitely a HTBT

There are times when even a HTBT doesn't answer the question. While he and the coach were arguing, I walked in to offer my take if my partner asked, as we saw the play differently. He didn't ask, I didn't tell.

[Rich Ives]

6 hours ago, maineump said:

If it hits the wrist and goes up to the bat - still held back - then HBP, if the bat is 'off the shoulder and level - DB strike. To me it has to do with where the bat is or even judging intent of the hitter. Definitely a HTBT

Would you have called it an attempt on a check swing if the ball hadn't hit the batter? Don't change the criteria here.

[maineump]

8 hours ago, Rich Ives said:

Would you have called it an attempt on a check swing if the ball hadn't hit the batter? Don't change the criteria here.

No I wouldn't change the swing criteria - if I had a question on the swing, I would ask partner if he went. Treat it like any pitch. It is basically, was he swinging? Could he avoid the pitch? Where is the pitch? Lots of stuff to look at in this case.

[stl_ump]

On 5/20/2017 at 8:46 AM, LRZ said:

I need some help in untangling a HBP situation (OBR rules, please). An inside pitch hits the batter, who then (and almost simultaneously) swings and fouls the pitch off. The PU awards the batter first and tells the defensive coach, who argued for a strike, that the ball was dead immediately when it hit the batter, so nothing that happened after that mattered. Is this ruling and explanation correct? Neither 5.05(a) nor 5.05(b) seem to address the situation. Thanks.

"and almost simultaneously"...  to me that sounds like it is all happening at once.  I'd need two separate "events" to rule a HBP.  Otherwise I'm going with a simultaneous occurrence of these two things.

 

[beerguy55]

When does a swing become a swing?  

I can't see a scenario where the batter actually doesn't start his swing until after he is hit by the pitch.

But, if you start a swing, and then get hit by a pitch is your swing ruled to have stopped at the point the ball hit you?  Or do you wait to see if the swing is completed to rule if it was a swing or not.

 

This is starting to sound like the Tuck Rule

[noumpere]

15 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

When does a swing become a swing?  

I can't see a scenario where the batter actually doesn't start his swing until after he is hit by the pitch.

But, if you start a swing, and then get hit by a pitch is your swing ruled to have stopped at the point the ball hit you?  Or do you wait to see if the swing is completed to rule if it was a swing or not.

 

This is starting to sound like the Tuck Rule

From an umpiring perspective, a swing doesn't "start-continue-stop"  It just happens.  In 1nsec it goes from "no swing" to "swing" as soon as the umpire judges "attempt"