Ugly Situation

[JaxRolo]

Ok guys let me know how badly I screwed up yesterday.

I was working 2 games at a Middle School Tournament Yesterday. I was PU on the first game.

It was a very good game with no complaints about the Umpiring. 7th Inning 6-6 Tie. No runs score. So I wanted to play another inning since it was a end of season tournament. Well my partner was adamant that on a Doubleheader the game had to end and we had to go back to the last inning where a team was winner and that team be declared the winner. So that is what we did and ended the game.

At this point it got really ugly. Parents were calling us names and yelling at us. As we were walking out the gate to our cars 2 parents were following us calling us cowards and wanting to fight. There was no security. We were at out cars trying to change and these guys would not leave. I called the police because I really felt threatened and didn't want my car unattended during the second game.

I have been looking all morning for a Time Limit rule and can't find it. I have always been told that there is a 2 Hour limit on Middle and JV Games.

Never ran into anything like this before. How could I have handled this better?

[gdpmumin]

I have been looking all morning for a Time Limit rule and can't find it. I have always been told that there is a 2 Hour limit on Middle and JV Games.

Never ran into anything like this before. How could I have handled this better?

JaxRolo, our league has a time limit of 1:15 on minor league games (10 and under) and an 1:45 on major league games (12 and under). If there's a tie, you keep playing. I found this document from the Northern California Umpires Association that states that a tie game at the end of 2:15 is not extended to break the tie. http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=13534425&query=%26game_pk%3D286963 That document doesn't apply to you, but does show how some associations handle the situation differently.

So I would think you could have ended the game in a tie, but going back and picking a winner opened you up to a lot heat.

[SnareDrum]

First, WOW! That sucks about the the morons following you out. Here, they would've gotten a fat citation or two from the cops by ordinance.

As far as to how I would've handled this if I were you? With a (declared) win/loss on the line, I might, MIGHT have brought the Tournament Director and/or coaches in on it and asked them what their understanding of their rules were on this since most tournaments have something in place just for this situation. Surely, they've had ties before. Best case scenario is to keep playing, sad case is to call tie and end it, absolute worst case is what happened to you. I also would have to have a pow-wow with that partner when I saw him again, and sternly ask him to show you the rule that states a doubleheader game not called due to weather can't end in a tie after 7-innings and a winner has to be declared.... or something like that. I hate to say it, but it looks like he may have been way off on this one. When I have a tournament or a league that's new to me, I will do my best to check to see what their special rules are, especially ties and if I get free hot dogs. Not checking before or double-checking after sit the only "screw-up" I see.

Lastly, WOW!

[yawetag]

Never ran into anything like this before. How could I have handled this better?

Did you talk to the coaches at all? It's possible someone in the park knew the rule or had it available. Being a tournament, was there a Tournament Director? If so, get him to the field. It seems crazy to me that you go back to the last inning with a lead.

[noumpere]

Ok guys let me know how badly I screwed up yesterday.

I was working 2 games at a Middle School Tournament Yesterday. I was PU on the first game.

It was a very good game with no complaints about the Umpiring. 7th Inning 6-6 Tie. No runs score. So I wanted to play another inning since it was a end of season tournament. Well my partner was adamant that on a Doubleheader the game had to end and we had to go back to the last inning where a team was winner and that team be declared the winner. So that is what we did and ended the game.

At this point it got really ugly. Parents were calling us names and yelling at us. As we were walking out the gate to our cars 2 parents were following us calling us cowards and wanting to fight. There was no security. We were at out cars trying to change and these guys would not leave. I called the police because I really felt threatened and didn't want my car unattended during the second game.

I have been looking all morning for a Time Limit rule and can't find it. I have always been told that there is a 2 Hour limit on Middle and JV Games.

Never ran into anything like this before. How could I have handled this better?

Your biggest screw up was not knowing the tournament rules before doing the game.

Your second biggest screw up was not getting the coaches together, have them agree on the decision and then when the teams started to line up leave. The fans would then be mad at the coach or tournament and not as much at you.

(And if your asking us what the rule is thats your third biggest screw up because how the heck would we know? Some others seemed to think thats what your asking but its not what I took from the post.)

[ukce1861]

Sounds like he's trying to apply the LL rule (4.11(d))where score reverts to the previous inning, if a game has to be called and the visitors tie it or take the lead in an inning that the home team does get to complete their ABs (And he didn't even get that rule right). It's a painful rule and one they changed for tournament play because of these very types of situations. But it's not a FED rule...

[JaxRolo]

We talked about what would happen in case of a tie in the plate meeting. I gave my normal spiel and when I asked my partner if he had anything he brought up this tie game situation and the coaches actually agreed to it.

I for one am on the school when the plate umpire asks if I have anything I say no. Unless its something really obvious the PU misses. Like are your players properly and legally equipped.

Second thing was that the tournament director was actually the Coach of the losing team. So after agreeing to it at the plate meeting it looked like he was trying to change the rules to benefit him.

I just got a call from my assignor and told me that my partner is suspended for the rest of the season and maybe next season. FHSAA got involved and usually our association sends the number 1 team to State finals and we may not get to send them this year because of this.

[SnareDrum]

We talked about what would happen in case of a tie in the plate meeting. I gave my normal spiel and when I asked my partner if he had anything he brought up this tie game situation and the coaches actually agreed to it.

I for one am on the school when the plate umpire asks if I have anything I say no. Unless its something really obvious the PU misses. Like are your players properly and legally equipped.

Second thing was that the tournament director was actually the Coach of the losing team. So after agreeing to it at the plate meeting it looked like he was trying to change the rules to benefit him.

I just got a call from my assignor and told me that my partner is suspended for the rest of the season and maybe next season. FHSAA got involved and usually our association sends the number 1 team to State finals and we may not get to send them this year because of this.

I see... Last Saturday, we had a 3-3 tie going into the last inning (5th due to time limit), and even though I had covered the tie rule & 1/2 game split in the plate pre-game, I called out loud enough for the county to hear: "Last inning! If it ends in a tie, we're done and each team gets a half-game!!" I'll do the same at a half-inning or even mid-inning if a tie is likely so the all of the uninformed within earshot know what's up. Right away, everybody knows what can happen... especially since the rules are printed and distributed to all parents doesn't mean they will actually read them. PERHAPS, if you or the partner had hollered what the ruling could be on a winner even some time during the inning, it might have helped? Honestly, if I were a fan and found out at the end that a win/loss was being awarded by rule, I'd go slightly ape-feces too, but I wouldn't chase you down!

[jjb]

OK, so, at the Plate Meeting, the TD/HC/Soon-to-be-Losing Team agreed with your partner's assessment of what would happen in the event of a tie. You knew the rule to be something else. You didn't fix it then and there at the Plate Meeting? If I disagreed with my partner, I'd fix it, by asking the TD (who's standing there). Then, (whatever he says), I'm covered, no matter what the rule should be. If I let it go, well, you saw what can happen...

Sound like a Group Screwp, if you ask me....

[JaxRolo]

OK, so, at the Plate Meeting, the TD/HC/Soon-to-be-Losing Team agreed with your partner's assessment of what would happen in the event of a tie. You knew the rule to be something else. You didn't fix it then and there at the Plate Meeting? If I disagreed with my partner, I'd fix it, by asking the TD (who's standing there). Then, (whatever he says), I'm covered, no matter what the rule should be. If I let it go, well, you saw what can happen...

Sound like a Group Screwp, if you ask me....

I agree it was a major group screw up.

I did not know the correct rule or if I did I let my partner convince me he was right.

[mstaylor]

I don't care how bad you screwed up, the parents have no justification to chase or even approach you after a game. It is a ballgame and a tournament, it will be fine, life will go on.

[JaxRolo]

I don't care how bad you screwed up, the parents have no justification to chase or even approach you after a game. It is a ballgame and a tournament, it will be fine, life will go on.

Thanks.

I had the plate at a jv game tonight and all I could think about was yesterday's game. It was hard to focus. But had no complaints.

[mstaylor]

We have all screwed rules and judgment calls in our careers, it will happen again I have no doubt. But there is no excuse for parents, coaches or players to attack, follow or acoost officials because we have done our jobs.

[yawetag]

Sounds like he's trying to apply the LL rule (4.11(d))where score reverts to the previous inning, if a game has to be called and the visitors tie it or take the lead in an inning that the home team does get to complete their ABs (And he didn't even get that rule right). It's a painful rule and one they changed for tournament play because of these very types of situations. But it's not a FED rule...

Yes, but that only goes back to the previous inning, correct? It wouldn't go all the way back to the first inning to break the tie, would it?

[txump81]

I always ask the coaches at the plate meeting. My association works for multiple districts of different sizes. Some do it differently than others. I even ask about a tie if I have called a game for them previously. It usually gets a response from both coaches as to the procedure. In tournaments, the TD should have tiebreaker procedures in place and possibly time limit procedures. The tournaments I have worked all have the tiebreaker procedures published and made known from the very beginning. The TD gets some of the blame as he wasn't vocal about the correct procedures.

[ukce1861]

Sounds like he's trying to apply the LL rule (4.11(d))where score reverts to the previous inning, if a game has to be called and the visitors tie it or take the lead in an inning that the home team does get to complete their ABs (And he didn't even get that rule right). It's a painful rule and one they changed for tournament play because of these very types of situations. But it's not a FED rule...

Yes, but that only goes back to the previous inning, correct? It wouldn't go all the way back to the first inning to break the tie, would it?

Correct. That rule only applies if the visiting team ties the game or takes the lead in the top of the last inning and the home team does not have the opportunity to either take the lead back or complete their ABs. Going back to previous innings is just stupid, in my opinion...