Legal feint?

[umpwheels71]

Fed rules. Runners on 1st and 3rd. Right hand pitcher.

Pitcher was working out of the stretch, comes to a stop, steps straight toward 3rd base turns toward 1st and throws. Offensive coach calls it illegal because the pitcher did not make a throwing motion with his arm toward 3rd base. I stayed firm in my decision that the clear step toward 3rd base was a legal feint. Opinions?

[ricka56]

You got it right for Fed. The arm motion is not required ... just like a fake to 2B. 

[noumpere]

19 minutes ago, umpwheels71 said:

Fed rules. Runners on 1st and 3rd. Right hand pitcher.

Pitcher was working out of the stretch, comes to a stop, steps straight toward 3rd base turns toward 1st and throws. Offensive coach calls it illegal because the pitcher did not make a throwing motion with his arm toward 3rd base. I stayed firm in my decision that the clear step toward 3rd base was a legal feint. Opinions?

If that was all one motion (i.e., F1 pivoted on his left foot immediately after the step and threw ), then it's a balk.  F1 must complete the "disengagement' (not really the right term) and / or step toward first to throw.  I doubt that's what happened, though.

 

There used to be some case with the (approximate phrase) "A step is required to feint; arm motion is not required."  Don't know if that's still there.

[Senor Azul]

The NFHS interpretations are:

A pitcher working from the set position may feint to third and then turn and throw to first. (6.1.5)  He may do that “with or without disengaging the pitcher’s plate.” (6.2.4c)

The feint does not require arm motion. (Hopkins, 2002)

SITUATION 9: With runners on first and third bases, the pitcher is in the set position. The pitcher then attempts the third-to-first pick-off move by stepping towards third base, and turning around and throwing to first. The third-base coach claims this is a balk since the pitcher, in his feint to third, only stepped toward third with no arm movement. RULING: This pick-off move is legal. A feint is a movement that simulates the start of a pitch or a throw to a base. Arm movement by a pitcher during a feint is not mandatory. (2-28-5)

[Richvee]

 

11 hours ago, umpwheels71 said:

steps straight toward 3rd base turns toward 1st and throws.

From the casebook

F1 must step toward third base when feinting there. F1 may not feint to first base. He must step toward the base and throw. He might, while he is on the plate, step toward occupied third and feint a throw, and then turn to step toward first and throw there with or without disengaging the pitcher’s plate. If F1 steps and feints to first, he must first disengage the pitcher’s plate or he is guilty of a balk.

[umpwheels71]

Excellent! thanks everyone.

[stl_ump]

Obvious from this thread but FED still allows the 3rd to 1st move? (I only do OBR)

[maven]

5 minutes ago, stl_ump said:

Obvious from this thread but FED still allows the 3rd to 1st move? (I only do OBR)

Everyone still allows it, unless they have adopted updated OBR.

[stl_ump]

Ahhh.. I assumed once OBR / MLB makes a change as significant as this that everyone else would follow suit.

[Richvee]

11 hours ago, stl_ump said:

Ahhh.. I assumed once OBR / MLB makes a change as significant as this that everyone else would follow suit.

We have some travel ball leagues around that have made the feint to 3rd illegal this year.

[basejester]

13 hours ago, Richvee said:

We have some travel ball leagues around that have made the feint to 3rd illegal this year.

Otherwise, are they using Fed?  That is, did they make it illegal explicitly or do they use OBR and enacted the change automatically?

 

[Richvee]

10 hours ago, basejester said:

Otherwise, are they using Fed?  That is, did they make it illegal explicitly or do they use OBR and enacted the change automatically?

 

It's FED otherwise. They've decided to add the OBR feint to 3rd.