Train Wreck

[gymcoch]

2 questions. First one's easy and the second I just want to clarify what I am reading (Little League)

1. Pop up 1B line/foul territory. BR in base path and P or F3 collide as fielders are looking in the air at the pop up. Train wreck?

2. (stay with me here): Improper batter reaches 1B. Defense appeals it and proper batter is called out. It says that any advance made by runners due to a hit, BB, etc...is nullified. Does that include the improper batter who has reached 1B? Is he pulled off of 1B?

As always, thanks in advance

[maven]

1. I can't tell who collided with whom, but if they were opponents and not teammates, this cannot be a train wreck. If the BR collides with the protected fielder, it is INT. If he collides with the other one, it is OBS. No train wreck on a batted ball, only on a thrown ball.

2. Yes, the improper batter is removed from base.

[Rich Ives]

2 questions. First one's easy and the second I just want to clarify what I am reading (Little League)

1. Pop up 1B line/foul territory. BR in base path and P or F3 collide as fielders are looking in the air at the pop up. Train wreck?

2. (stay with me here): Improper batter reaches 1B. Defense appeals it and proper batter is called out. It says that any advance made by runners due to a hit, BB, etc...is nullified. Does that include the improper batter who has reached 1B? Is he pulled off of 1B?

As always, thanks in advance

1.  If P and F3 collide so what?

If you meant the BR collided with one of them then you have to decide which fielder was protected to field the ball. Only one can be protected. Then if the BR collided with the protected fielder the BR is out for interference and the ball is dead.  If the BR collides with the other fielder then it's obstruction, the ball is  dead and the BR is awarded 1B.

 

2. Yes the improper batter is removed from the bases. He's improper. He thus improperly advanced. Why would you let him stay?

[Richvee]

1.  If P and F3 collide so what?

If you meant the BR collided with one of them then you have to decide which fielder was protected to field the ball. Only one can be protected. Then if the BR collided with the protected fielder the BR is out for interference and the ball is dead.  If the BR collides with the other fielder then it's obstruction, the ball is  dead and the BR is awarded 1B.

 

2. Yes the improper batter is removed from the bases. He's improper. He thus improperly advanced. Why would you let him stay?

The ball is live on a pop up or fly ball when the runner is obstructed before 1st base.

Only if the ball falls uncaught fair. If the BR is obstructed and the ball falls foul, the foul ball prevails.  If the pop up is caught (fair or foul) the batter is out. MLBUM 7.31

Edited September 13, 2015 by Richvee

[gymcoch]

So a high pop up in foul territory in front of 1B, F1 comes to try to get under it (as well as F3), BR stays in base path and F1 (looking up) and BR collide, it's what? Say F3 never got to it and F1 would have had the best chance? INT even though BR never saw where ball was? Sorry...just still unclear.

[Rich Ives]

So a high pop up in foul territory in front of 1B, F1 comes to try to get under it (as well as F3), BR stays in base path and F1 (looking up) and BR collide, it's what? Say F3 never got to it and F1 would have had the best chance? INT even though BR never saw where ball was? Sorry...just still unclear.

The umpire decides which fielder has protected status to catch the ball - while the ball is in the air, not afterwards.

A runner must ALWAYS avoid a fielder making a play on a batted ball. Staying in the base path doesn't excuse him.

If the runner interferes with the protected fielder he is out and the ball is dead. In this play all other runners return. It is possible that with the interference happening elsewhere that some runners will advanced due to being forced. No run can score.

If in your play the ball was fair and the non-protected fielder hindered the batter-runner then it would be obstruction.

[grayhawk]

So a high pop up in foul territory in front of 1B, F1 comes to try to get under it (as well as F3), BR stays in base path and F1 (looking up) and BR collide, it's what? Say F3 never got to it and F1 would have had the best chance? INT even though BR never saw where ball was? Sorry...just still unclear.

Then it sounds to me like F1 should be the protected fielder, and since he and the BR collided, then interference is the correct call.

[maven]

The umpire decides which fielder has protected status to catch the ball - while the ball is in the air, not afterwards.

A couple minor quibbles: first, your comment obviously applies only to a fly ball. When two fielders converge on a ground ball, it's still the case that only 1 is protected, but we won't be able to determine that while the ball is in the air.

Second, even during a fly ball, it's sometimes unclear who should be protected until the ball has dropped or been fielded. Certainly no rule requires this determination while the ball is in the air, and unlike IFF it's not even a standard mechanic to do so. And since we don't announce it, there's even less reason to rush the determination.

I'd rather sort it out properly afterward and get the call right than rush it and boot the call. Use all available evidence to make the call.

 

[Rich Ives]

A couple minor quibbles: first, your comment obviously applies only to a fly ball. When two fielders converge on a ground ball, it's still the case that only 1 is protected, but we won't be able to determine that while the ball is in the air.

Second, even during a fly ball, it's sometimes unclear who should be protected until the ball has dropped or been fielded. Certainly no rule requires this determination while the ball is in the air, and unlike IFF it's not even a standard mechanic to do so. And since we don't announce it, there's even less reason to rush the determination.

I'd rather sort it out properly afterward and get the call right than rush it and boot the call. Use all available evidence to make the call.

 

The OP play was about a fly ball so I tried to keep it there. On a ground ball you can still decide before it gets to a fielder.

The problem with waiting is that it leaves you open to criticism for waiting to see the result before deciding - legitimate I think. Perhaps a point or some indicator would be appropriate.

"This is youth ball - pitchers catch fly balls here!"

"Pitchers don't catch fly balls!"

"You just called it that way because you have a hot date and want to get out of here!"

 

[maven]

The next coach I meet who knows the concept of a protected fielder will likely be the first.

I'm not inclined to invent a mechanic just to please a coach on the internet.

[Mike Walsh]

So a high pop up in foul territory in front of 1B, F1 comes to try to get under it (as well as F3), BR stays in base path and F1 (looking up) and BR collide, it's what? Say F3 never got to it and F1 would have had the best chance? INT even though BR never saw where ball was? Sorry...just still unclear.

Interference does not require intent.

Mike