Who's watching first?

[DWDIII]

First game of the year tonight, 2 man crew, 14U, I was BU in C with R2 and R3. Fly ball to right center, I put myself in position to watch runner who is holding at 2nd and get the catch, with the thought in mind that I should verbalize the catch to help out PU who should be watching R3. The ball drops and everyone takes off and I notice the BR already around first and thought - who could have possibly been watching the touch of first? Nothing came of it but is this a situation where you are just out-numbered?

[Replacematt]

BU always has touches of first by an advancing runner.

 

Think about this play. If the runners tag, your play is probably going to be into 3B. You can move to the 3B side of the working area, see R2, the catch, and the touch of 1B.

[catsbackr]

Watch the ball, glance at the runners.  The touch at 1B is secondary to the catch and your tag-up responsibility.

[kstrunk]

2 Man System manuals I'm reading say repeatedly that this is drawback of the two man system. Ball MUST be the priority, and there will be times we miss touches, because we're only 2. @Matt makes a good point, but still difficult without a doubt, even with the best of peripheral vision.

[ALStripes17]

First game of the year tonight, 2 man crew, 14U, I was BU in C with R2 and R3. Fly ball to right center, I put myself in position to watch runner who is holding at 2nd and get the catch, with the thought in mind that I should verbalize the catch to help out PU who should be watching R3. The ball drops and everyone takes off and I notice the BR already around first and thought - who could have possibly been watching the touch of first? Nothing came of it but is this a situation where you are just out-numbered?

Agree with everything else said.

Sidenote: don't think that your catch call helps the PU. Runners tag up on the touch, not the catch. Your timing should be waiting for voluntary release, at that point the runner may/could be 2-3 steps from their legally retouched base.

[labguy1971]

 

First game of the year tonight, 2 man crew, 14U, I was BU in C with R2 and R3. Fly ball to right center, I put myself in position to watch runner who is holding at 2nd and get the catch, with the thought in mind that I should verbalize the catch to help out PU who should be watching R3. The ball drops and everyone takes off and I notice the BR already around first and thought - who could have possibly been watching the touch of first? Nothing came of it but is this a situation where you are just out-numbered?

Agree with everything else said.

Sidenote: don't think that your catch call helps the PU. Runners tag up on the touch, not the catch. Your timing should be waiting for voluntary release, at that point the runner may/could be 2-3 steps from their legally retouched base.

 

Like the sidenote, good points

[DWDIII]

Ok, like the sidemote bette? great - this was something that I thought about prolly for the first time, trying to help the PU with R3 touch on a fly ball to right. The PU I was working with wasn't very mobile., so I was thinking I should try to help him , ok - should I vocalize "touch" of fly ball or just let him figure it out for himself?

[labguy1971]

You are doing good and with a good question.  It is good that you are thinking about what you are doing out there and trying to think of ways to get better.  Wish I knew about this forum when I first started out but am glad to know about it now.  Alot of new umpires (including myself) did not differentiate between a catch and first touch it was not clearly understood to me (first year) at least and to some of the newer guys that I work with now it is (they think like once I did that ball actually had to be caught).  I am still trying to get in proper position so that I can do my job better (work in progress).  Keep working and you will get better and keep asking questions.  Plate guy should be in proper position as well to see touch by outfielder and tag at 3rd.  I am finally getting better at that this season.  Always a work in progress for me. 

[ALStripes17]

Ok, like the sidemote bette? great - this was something that I thought about prolly for the first time, trying to help the PU with R3 touch on a fly ball to right. The PU I was working with wasn't very mobile., so I was thinking I should try to help him , ok - should I vocalize "touch" of fly ball or just let him figure it out for himself?

It's very good to think about ways to help and get better.

It's just the PU's job to see touch and tag of 3B. Just like it's his job to see the timing of a tag play for the 3rd out in re: to a runner crossing the plate at the same time.

You have to worry about your own timing and a catch is not complete until voluntary release occurs. The timing for that and when the runner is allowed to legally retouch and advance just don't coincide in a way that we can help our partner.

[johnnyg08]

It's always best, even if you know you're not going to see the touch for 100%, give it a quick glance to give you some credibility if they appeal. Don't ever say that "if you want me to get that, hire a third umpire"

[noumpere]

Depending on the timing, you might not see the touch at first, but you will have time to see if BR ran 90 feet or if he cut the corner.

 

And, if the timing is such that BR reaches first just as the ball reaches F9, then BR is not likely to try for second, so he's almost always going to touch first.

 

And, despite what the manual says, sometimes PU can help on this (maybe not in this situation).