Another balk question

[refump10]

Had this sitch in a 15U game the other day.  R1, LH F1, I'm BU in B. F1 attempts to pick off R1.  Both base coaches complain that's a balk.  Whatever.  Through a couple of innings, F1 threw over some, and each time both coaches are calling for a balk to be called. 

 

Between innings at one point, I went in to talk to my partner and asked him what all the fuss is about.  His response: "oh, he's balking all over the place. He's got everything going toward the plate!"  When I asked why he didn't call it he basically said that it was my call and if I didn't call it he wasn't about to.

 

I don't want to make this discussion about my partner: I want this discussion about the balk rule.  I did ask my partner if he was stepping toward home more than first.  He said nope, but everything else is coming toward the plate. 

 

My question, what do you guys gauge other than the step in determining a balk? I didn't really see anything from B that suggested a balk with this kid, so I'm looking for a little more guidance.

[noumpere]

From BU, there's not much to use to guage it -- as soon as you see any kind of move, you have to move toward first.  PU (I know -- it's not about your partner) needs to get 90% of the balks for items other than failing to stop.

 

You might be able to see a body lean, or the hip opening up.

 

OTOH, if you weren't fooled / getting a late jump to read the play at first, I'm not sure how much he was balking.

[maven]

In 2-umpire mechanics, you can't nitpick this balk. It's got to be so big both umpires see it, or leave it alone.

[Replacematt]

In 2-umpire mechanics, you can't nitpick this balk. It's got to be so big both umpires see it, or leave it alone.

Disagree. Pitcher gets a huge advantage if he can start leaning home and still throw to first. If either sees it, they need to get it. I'm not saying to guess on it, but if that upper body starts moving home, this needs to be called. In the OP, PU screwed the pooch, his partner, and the offense all at the same time.

[refump10]

First, thanks for the replies.  Now to my further education; what cues do you use other than stepping toward first base in determining a balk.  The coaches in my sitch were talking about leaning toward the plate.  I can't see in the rules where it is proscribed other than: "8.05(a) the pitcher, while touching his plate, makes any motion naturally associated with his pitch and fails to make such delivery;"

 

Is this where the leaning, opening of hips, etc., comes into play?

[MPLSMatt]

The one that I've seen are the shoulder opening up.  F1 needs to throw directly to 1st base, so there is no reason for his shoulders to open so you can see the front of his jersey.  

 

Besides your partner being a d*ck, don't let base coaches make a big scene about a balk.  I know it's tough when you are unsure (I was there once too), but nothing good comes from people making a scene over a balk.  Depending on the level of ball I've done one of two things:

 

1) That's enough, coach.  I don't want to see anymore of that.  

 

or 

 

2) if one of the base coaches is a head coach (and somewhat reasonable), Bill, what about that was a balk?  Ok, I'll look for it (assuming he cites something that is actually a balk), but I can't have you complaining about balks out there.  That's a judgement call, and now if I call a balk I'm going to have to listen to the other dugout tell me how you are influencing my decisions.  Got it? 

 

I would encourage you to use number 2 sparingly (and only once you have a good understanding of the rule) but it's worked for me.  No matter what, don't let coaches make a scene of a balk that they want and absolutely never let them yell the word balk.  

[ricka56]

The one that I've seen are the shoulder opening up.  F1 needs to throw directly to 1st base, so there is no reason for his shoulders to open so you can see the front of his jersey.  

 

I've heard of this "opening shoulders" criteria talked about before, but I don't understand its mechanism. When LHP F1 is set/stopped, the line of his shoulders are pointing towards HP (he's facing 1B). What do his shoulders do that is deceptive/illegal ? Do the shoulders turn towards 1B and then "open up" towards HP?  What is the illegal mechanism.

[MPLSMatt]

His shoulders start pointed at the plate (when set) but point toward the 3rd base dugout before throwing to 1b. I've seen it tried 3 times and only once was it an experienced F1 who made it look somewhat legal. The others were complete hack jobs.

[Jimurray]

His shoulders start pointed at the plate (when set) but point toward the 3rd base dugout before throwing to 1b. I've seen it tried 3 times and only once was it an experienced F1 who made it look somewhat legal. The others were complete hack jobs.

Which shoulder points to 3B dugout? A LH pitcher's back shoulder normally rotates back as he steps and throws to 1B. It's a good key for the ump and the runner that he's not going home.

[ricka56]

 

His shoulders start pointed at the plate (when set) but point toward the 3rd base dugout before throwing to 1b. I've seen it tried 3 times and only once was it an experienced F1 who made it look somewhat legal. The others were complete hack jobs.

Which shoulder points to 3B dugout? A LH pitcher's back shoulder normally rotates back as he steps and throws to 1B. It's a good key for the ump and the runner that he's not going home.

 

I'm pretty sure he meant his right (front) shoulder...but I still can't even imagine it looking legal.

[victorinva]

The leaning towards home and not delivering to home is deception to the base runner (which is the purpose of the balk rule).  It is very hard call to make when you are in the B position of a two man crew.  I've only made that call once but it was extremely obvious.

[ALStripes17]

The leaning towards home and not delivering to home is deception to the base runner (which is the purpose of the balk rule). It is very hard call to make when you are in the B position of a two man crew. I've only made that call once but it was extremely obvious.

Deception is not one of the balk rules. Leaning towards home would fall under either "making a motion naturally associated with a pitch" or possibly "not going directly towards a base"

[Pete Peterson Sr]

The leaning towards home and not delivering to home is deception to the base runner (which is the purpose of the balk rule).  It is very hard call to make when you are in the B position of a two man crew.  I've only made that call once but it was extremely obvious.

 

  Be very careful how you throw this around. Deceiving a runner is not illegal. Illegally deceiving the runner, however, IS illegal. If deception were the defining part of a balk, the hidden ball trick would be outlawed.

[victorinva]

I never said deception is one of the balk rules.  I said deception is the purpose of the balk rule(s)  Either way its hard to call to make.  Thanks for commenting on that guys.

[1umpire2love]

When I am doing bases and have a LHP, I specifically watch for two things.

1- Front shoulder dipping towards home.

2- Right foot and knee opening up towards home.