Foul Pole in play?

[ERW27]

This seems like a stupid question but had this play this weekend and can't find anything that specifically mentions what is correct.

 

R1. Batter hits ball that bounces into the foul pole "cage" or netting and is picked up by F7. Both runners advanced to second and third. My question is that extension part of foul pole in play? Its above the wall so I think it would be ground rule double. I thought let the play occur and I would discuss with my partner is something funky happend, luckily it didnt and no one said a word. During post game my partner said its in play. Was he right?

[tjwoelfel13]

The foul pole including the extension is not in play. If hit on the fly it's a home run and on a hop a groundrule double.

[grayhawk]

The foul pole including the extension is not in play. If hit on the fly it's a home run and on a hop a groundrule double.

 

Maybe.  Some of these poles are in front of the wall and if it's hits the pole on the bounce, a ground rule may have it as a live ball.

[ERW27]

this pole was not in front. I should have been a ground rule double.

 

Thanks guys!

[maven]

Should be covered in ground rules. I agree that a pole in the field is usually in play, and a pole behind the wall is usually out of play.

[maineump]

Is the cage towards fair territory or foul? I have seen both?

If the cage is toward center field, then it is out of play 2 bases - if it is towards DBT, then it is out of play and depends on the last hit on the ground where it bounced from.

Basically, treat the pole as though the cage isn't there - then what would your call have been?

[Replacematt]

I work a field where the entire outfield is bounded by a 40' fence ending at the poles, with a normal height fence surrounding the rest of the field. The ground rule there is if it hits the pole and stays in, play on, and if it deflects out, it's a home run. Weird place.

[noumpere]

Is the cage towards fair territory or foul? I have seen both?

If the cage is toward center field, then it is out of play 2 bases - if it is towards DBT, then it is out of play and depends on the last hit on the ground where it bounced from.

Basically, treat the pole as though the cage isn't there - then what would your call have been?

I've seen poles without a "cage", but I've never seen one with that part in foul territory.

 

I don't understand this.  If it's a fair ball it doesn't matter whether it bounces into the stands in "fair territory" or "foul territory", and it certainly doesn't matter where it "last hit on the ground" (unless the "last hit" was also the "first hit" and that's only used to determine fair / foul) -- it's still a two base award..

[maven]

I've seen poles without a "cage", but I've never seen one with that part in foul territory.

I have. It was not installed by a baseball guy.

[maineump]

 

Is the cage towards fair territory or foul? I have seen both?

If the cage is toward center field, then it is out of play 2 bases - if it is towards DBT, then it is out of play and depends on the last hit on the ground where it bounced from.

Basically, treat the pole as though the cage isn't there - then what would your call have been?

I've seen poles without a "cage", but I've never seen one with that part in foul territory.

 

I don't understand this.  If it's a fair ball it doesn't matter whether it bounces into the stands in "fair territory" or "foul territory", and it certainly doesn't matter where it "last hit on the ground" (unless the "last hit" was also the "first hit" and that's only used to determine fair / foul) -- it's still a two base award..

 

You are correct and I mis-typed - it is the first hit for the fair/foul.

There are fields that have the cages in the wrong place, just have to remember to use the 'fair pole' as the guide and not the cage.

[Senor Azul]

The portion of the foul pole that extends above the top of the fence is over fair territory. In addition, that portion of the foul pole is over dead ball territory (DBT). So when a batted ball hits the foul pole it is both a fair and dead ball. I think we all can agree that a ball that touches DBT is immediately dead.

 

Also, rule 3.13 tells us that a ground rule shall not conflict with an official playing rule. If a visiting team objects to a ground rule then rule 9.04(a)(9) tells us the plate umpire can resolve the issue at his discretion.

 

And the definition of the playing field might be helpful here as well:

 

The playing field includes both foul and fair territory but not DBT, which is " beyond the playing field."

 

And to ERW27, you are right that the rule book does not specifically address your question. Foul poles are mentioned in the definition of "fair ball" and again briefly in rule 1.04(b) but neither says anything helpful about how the poles should affect play.