Batting out of order

[Guest Ted]

Our team listed the order wrong on official lineup card. We actually were batting out of order. However we went through the lineup that way 3 times before the opposing coach brought it to the umpires attention. Are the normal batting out of order rules still applicable if you have been batting in that order the entire game?

[SoCal Lurker]

Yup.  The lineup never changes.  (Individuals batter's are validated one at at time when a pitch is thrown to the next bater.)  The other team can raise any time the batter who just finished his at bat was not the batter who should have followed the prior batter on the official line up.

[Replacematt]

Our team listed the order wrong on official lineup card. We actually were batting out of order. However we went through the lineup that way 3 times before the opposing coach brought it to the umpires attention. Are the normal batting out of order rules still applicable if you have been batting in that order the entire game?

Your question is confusing. Are you asking if:

A) because you are batting the same way the whole game, that becomes the batting order despite the written lineup, or:

B) the written lineup is always in effect, despite the fact that it has been ignored the whole game?

[noumpere]

 

Our team listed the order wrong on official lineup card. We actually were batting out of order. However we went through the lineup that way 3 times before the opposing coach brought it to the umpires attention. Are the normal batting out of order rules still applicable if you have been batting in that order the entire game?

Your question is confusing. Are you asking if:

A) because you are batting the same way the whole game, that becomes the batting order despite the written lineup, or:

B) the written lineup is always in effect, despite the fact that it has been ignored the whole game?

 

I think that is what he's asking, and the answer is B.

[grayhawk]

Also, the opposing coach either didn't notice until later in the game, or he is smart and waited to appeal until it was most advantageous to his team.

[Guest Bob]

So what happens in this case? Is the game forfeited?

[maven]

So what happens in this case? Is the game forfeited?

 

The lineup is fixed when accepted by the umpires. Although the team was in violation of the lineup each time the wrong batter came up, that batter's time at bat became legal after the first pitch to the next batter. So the defense was legalizing each improper batter throughout the game.

 

When the defense noticed one particular improper batter late in the game, it would be handled per the rule. The window for addressing any previous infraction was closed.

[1dumbquestion]

So what happens in this case? Is the game forfeited?

NO:

 

options:

 

1) either coach catches it while the incorrect batter is at bat and the correct batter takes his place and count with no penalty.

2) defensive coach catches it after the incorrect batter completes his time at bat and before the next pitch, play or attempted play; player that missed his time at bat is called out and the batter following him is up.

3) the coach catches it after the incorrect batter completes his at bat and after a pitch, play or attempted play; no penalty as the incorrect batter has now been legalized and the next batter listed on the line-up should be at the plate.

[SoCal Lurker]

Batting out of order only affects the batter who should have been batting during the previous at bat.

 

So assume the proper order was A,B,C,D,E,F,G,H, I  and the order that was being used was ABCIGFHDE

 

Any time the team doing it wrong realized the were doing it wrong, they could just revert to the proper order.  What happens if the other team notices depends on when they say something.

 

 

If the say something after B finished his at bat, nothing happens -- even though everything was mangled, B properly followed A, and that is all that matters.  (It became irrelevant that A improperly followed E as soon as a pitch was thrown to B.)

 

If, however, they noticed after F got a hit, it does matter.  F's hit is cancelled as if it never happened.  H should have been batting after G, so H is out, and the batter after H (which would be I) is now up.

 

The out is always the person who should have been batting.  And the proper new batter is always the person after the player who was out.  It can never be a cause for forfeit and can never be more than one out. 

[FleasOf1000Camels]

OK, I'll throw a wrench into this conversation.

What if...

With one out and runners on 1st and 3rd,

Able was the scheduled hitter, but Baker came up instead.

Baker hits in to a 6-4-3 double play.

OFFENSIVE coach now reports that they batted out of order.

[Larry in TN]

What if...

With one out and runners on 1st and 3rd,

Able was the scheduled hitter, but Baker came up instead.

Baker hits in to a 6-4-3 double play.

OFFENSIVE coach now reports that they batted out of order.

 

6.07

BATTING OUT OF TURN. 

(a) A batter shall be called out, on appeal, when he fails to bat in his proper turn, and another batter completes a time at bat in his place.

(b) When an improper batter becomes a runner or is put out, and the defensive team appeals to the umpire before the first pitch to the next batter of either team, or before any play or attempted play, the umpire shall (1) declare the proper batter out; and (2) nullify any advance or score made because of a ball batted by the improper batter or because of the improper batters advance to first base on a hit, an error, a base on balls, a hit batter or otherwise.

[grayhawk]

OK, I'll throw a wrench into this conversation.
What if...
With one out and runners on 1st and 3rd,
Able was the scheduled hitter, but Baker came up instead.
Baker hits in to a 6-4-3 double play.
OFFENSIVE coach now reports that they batted out of order.

Fire the offensive coach.  Was thinking defensive.

 

Edit - too late for the offense to report the BOO.

[SoCal Lurker]

 

OK, I'll throw a wrench into this conversation.

What if...

With one out and runners on 1st and 3rd,

Able was the scheduled hitter, but Baker came up instead.

Baker hits in to a 6-4-3 double play.

OFFENSIVE coach now reports that they batted out of order.

Fire the offensive coach.  Was thinking defensive.

 

Edit - too late for the offense to report the BOO.

 

 

Gee whiz, our poor original poster was confused enough!  And no, the offense can't make the double play go away by asking for the out for the BOO.

 

Grayhawk, I'm not sure what you mean by "too late for the offense to report" -- offense would never "report" BOO, rather, if offense noticed BOO before the end of the at bat, the correct player simply goes up to the plate and takes over.

 

(But for Fleas' can of worms, what happens iif the offense tells the umpire, and then the defensive manger yells, "they did, they did!" . . . )

[noumpere]

 

 

(But for Fleas' can of worms, what happens iif the offense tells the umpire, and then the defensive manger yells, "they did, they did!" . . . )

 

Then rule on the BOO.  In OBR and NCAA, the MYTAB is out, all runners return TOP.  So, still R1, R3, Baker bats again, but with two outs.

 

In FED, MYTAB is out and other outs (not on the improper batter) stand.  So, inning over (one out on the BOO, one on the play).  Baker leads off next inning.  (If the play started with 0 outs, then Baker bats with two outs and R3 only).

[grayhawk]

 

 

OK, I'll throw a wrench into this conversation.

What if...

With one out and runners on 1st and 3rd,

Able was the scheduled hitter, but Baker came up instead.

Baker hits in to a 6-4-3 double play.

OFFENSIVE coach now reports that they batted out of order.

Fire the offensive coach.  Was thinking defensive.

 

Edit - too late for the offense to report the BOO.

 

 

 

Grayhawk, I'm not sure what you mean by "too late for the offense to report" -- offense would never "report" BOO, rather, if offense noticed BOO before the end of the at bat, the correct player simply goes up to the plate and takes over.

 

(But for Fleas' can of worms, what happens iif the offense tells the umpire, and then the defensive manger yells, "they did, they did!" . . . )

 

 

They aren't just sending another batter to the plate in the middle of an at-bat without telling me what they are doing.  That's what I mean by "report."

 

For your second question, I would then ask, "Skip, are you appealing a batting out of order?"  If he says yes, then I would apply the rule properly as @noumpere posted above.

[Larry in TN]

They aren't just sending another batter to the plate in the middle of an at-bat without telling me what they are doing.

Why not? Does it make any difference to the umpire before the defensive appeals BOO?

[grayhawk]

They aren't just sending another batter to the plate in the middle of an at-bat without telling me what they are doing.

Why not? Does it make any difference to the umpire before the defensive appeals BOO?

Of course. I need to know if this is a substitution or something else.