Obstruction or not?, and abandonment

[HammerPIAA]

12U playoff game, NFHS rules.  Im behind the plate working solo.

 

Close game in 3rd inning - R3, 1 out.  Uncaught third strike, batter doesnt realize ball hit ground and starts toward dugout but C doesnt throw down because R3 is dancing and ready to take off as soon as the throw goes to 1B.  Coaches start screaming for kid to run to 1B.  He's about half way to the dugout/bench area when he finally acknowledges his coaches and realizes that he's got to run so he takes off, from a spot that was about 10 feet right of the foul line, and on a direct line to first right from there.  Throw never goes down from C to 1B because of R3.  DC starts protesting that the batter should be out because 1) he gave himself up, and 2) he was out of the baseline.

 

I explain that on dropped 3rd, rules say that batter hasnt given himself up until he enters the dugout/bench area (which he clearly had not) and then his baseline is established in a straight line between where he started to advance to 1B and 1B.  My interpretation is that "out of the baseline" is only to avoid a tag or to interfere intentionally with a fielder making a play, neither of which occurred here.  He disagreed.

 

Im pretty confident I got this one right, but wanted to get some more points of view.

 

2nd play,and this is probably a HTBT.............4th inning, tie score - close play at plate, runner coming home, ball thrown from SS on relay from OF, catcher steps out in front of plate on 3B side to accept the throw and in doing so, effectively "blocks the plate".  The ball definitely arrived first, in time enough for a clean catch and tag for the out, although was close, runner never touched the plate because it was blocked.  DC (same guy) comes out and says that it was Obstruction because the runner didnt have a space to get to the plate.  Our league has a strict "slide or avoid contact" rule, so everything on the runner's end was by the book.  I called the kid out and told the DC that although it was close, no obstruction.

 

Did I blow this one?  I felt that if I call that kid safe on obstruction with a clean tag and slide, the OC is going to go ballistic too - no win situation.

[JaxRolo]

Good call on first one.

 

Second one you have to judge whether blocking the plate before the ball got there caused the runner to slow down or change directions. If it did then OBS. If not call the out.

[HammerPIAA]

I honestly did not feel either of those occurred.  It was just a clean close play with a good throw, catch and tag, and runner just did a normal hard but safe slide (per our league rules) but never made it to the plate due to the positioning of C when he caught the ball and applied the tag.

[ALStripes17]

12U playoff game, NFHS rules. Im behind the plate working solo.

Close game in 3rd inning - R3, 1 out. Uncaught third strike, batter doesnt realize ball hit ground and starts toward dugout but C doesnt throw down because R3 is dancing and ready to take off as soon as the throw goes to 1B. Coaches start screaming for kid to run to 1B. He's about half way to the dugout/bench area when he finally acknowledges his coaches and realizes that he's got to run so he takes off, from a spot that was about 10 feet right of the foul line, and on a direct line to first right from there. Throw never goes down from C to 1B because of R3. DC starts protesting that the batter should be out because 1) he gave himself up, and 2) he was out of the baseline.

I explain that on dropped 3rd, rules say that batter hasnt given himself up until he enters the dugout/bench area (which he clearly had not) and then his baseline is established in a straight line between where he started to advance to 1B and 1B. My interpretation is that "out of the baseline" is only to avoid a tag or to interfere intentionally with a fielder making a play, neither of which occurred here. He disagreed.

Im pretty confident I got this one right, but wanted to get some more points of view.

2nd play,and this is probably a HTBT.............4th inning, tie score - close play at plate, runner coming home, ball thrown from SS on relay from OF, catcher steps out in front of plate on 3B side to accept the throw and in doing so, effectively "blocks the plate". The ball definitely arrived first, in time enough for a clean catch and tag for the out, although was close, runner never touched the plate because it was blocked. DC (same guy) comes out and says that it was Obstruction because the runner didnt have a space to get to the plate. Our league has a strict "slide or avoid contact" rule, so everything on the runner's end was by the book. I called the kid out and told the DC that although it was close, no obstruction.

Did I blow this one? I felt that if I call that kid safe on obstruction with a clean tag and slide, the OC is going to go ballistic too - no win situation.

The Defensive Coach (DC) wanted OBS called on his own cather?

And the Offensive Coach (OC) would have gone ballistic if his runner was safe?

I want to umpire in that world haha

Ditto to the advice said previously

[HammerPIAA]

Yeah, my bad on that juxtaposition.  Was supposed to convey that it was the same coach who questioned the uncaught 3rd earlier in the game.

 

Guess that would have made the game even more interesting than it was!

[noumpere]

Play 1:  correct call.  See case 8-1-1 B

 

Play2: HTBT, but remember the criteria is not really "blocking the plate" it's "denying complete access to the plate"

[maven]

Agree with @noumpere, except that the case is "8.1.1B," and he means "completely denying access."

 

Difficult to help with the second call without video, but as a general rule it's tough to support OBS if the ball arrives first.

[HammerPIAA]

Totally understood, and I appreciate all the feedback.  The ball definitely arrived first and I felt the same way.  At this level it would be hard to have a clean catch and tag without dropping the ball if it HADNT arrived first.