Triple play

[Guest Josh B]

Men's softball 0 puts man on 1st and 2nd ball is hit ti shortstop runner on 2nd doesn't leave the base...shortstop tags the runner then the base and throws to 1st....The call was runner on 2nd is safe and other 2 are out....is that correct

[maven]

The baseball ruling would be a triple play. R2 was forced to advance, so standing on 2B offered him no protection from being put out. F6 performed the tags in the correct order to get both outs there, then completed the triple play.

 

I make no claims about softball.

[BretMan]

Softball ruling is the same.

[DVA7130]

The baseball ruling would be a triple play. R2 was forced to advance, so standing on 2B offered him no protection from being put out. F6 performed the tags in the correct order to get both outs there, then completed the triple play.

 

I make no claims about softball.

That applies if the runner forced to the base is also touching the base..

I have two outs.

[Replacematt]

That applies if the runner forced to the base is also touching the base..

 

Nope, doesn't matter. The TOP base offers no protection on a forced runner, whether the forcing runner is there or not. 

 

Three out.

[Rich Ives]

 

The baseball ruling would be a triple play. R2 was forced to advance, so standing on 2B offered him no protection from being put out. F6 performed the tags in the correct order to get both outs there, then completed the triple play.

 

I make no claims about softball.

That applies if the runner forced to the base is also touching the base..

I have two outs.

 

 

Where did you get the idea that R1 was touching 2B when the base was tagged?

 

It's a triple play.

[DVA7130]

@Rich Ives

Exactly. He wasn't.

There seems to be agreement here, but I am looking for the cite that R2 loses protection.

The two men on base rule has nothing to do with this play.

[grayhawk]

2-29-3 in Fed:

ART. 3 . . . A force play is a play in which a runner (or two or three runners) loses his right to the base he occupies and is forced to advance because the batter becomes a batter-runner. For a given runner, a force play ends as soon as he touches the next base or a following runner is put out at a previous base.

[Replacematt]

@Rich Ives

Exactly. He wasn't.

There seems to be agreement here, but I am looking for the cite that R2 loses protection.

The two men on base rule has nothing to do with this play.

 

OBR: 7.08e. NCAA: 8-5-j. FED: 8-2-8, 8-4-2j

[afaber12]

@Rich Ives

Exactly. He wasn't.

There seems to be agreement here, but I am looking for the cite that R2 loses protection.

The two men on base rule has nothing to do with this play.

7.08e in OBR:

Any runner is out when -

(e) He fails to reach the next base before a fielder tags him or the base, after he has been forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner. ...

When a runner is forced, his only safe haven is the base he is forced to. That's also why the order is important in which gets tagged first. Tag the runner then the base to get both outs. Tag the base first, the force is taken off the runner, who is then safe while standing on the base.

[DVA7130]

@Rich Ives

Exactly. He wasn't.

There seems to be agreement here, but I am looking for the cite that R2 loses protection.

The two men on base rule has nothing to do with this play.

7.08e in OBR:

Any runner is out when -

(e) He fails to reach the next base before a fielder tags him or the base, after he has been forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner. ...

When a runner is forced, his only safe haven is the base he is forced to. That's also why the order is important in which gets tagged first. Tag the runner then the base to get both outs. Tag the base first, the force is taken off the runner, who is then safe while standing on the base.

Got it. Simple. Thanks.

[FleasOf1000Camels]

The original question fails to give enough info.

It just says ball hit to shortstop.  Does NOT say if it was caught in air or from the ground.

Methinks that might make a difference.

[Rich Ives]

The original question fails to give enough info.

It just says ball hit to shortstop.  Does NOT say if it was caught in air or from the ground.

Methinks that might make a difference.

 

Obviously not caught in the air based on the ensuing play.

[SoCal Lurker]

 

The original question fails to give enough info.

It just says ball hit to shortstop.  Does NOT say if it was caught in air or from the ground.

Methinks that might make a difference.

 

Obviously not caught in the air based on the ensuing play.

 

 

 

My first thought was exactly that, but . . . if U thought it was caught (say a low line drive that wasn't clear if touched the ground or was caught), then the U's call makes sense:  R2 is safe on the bag, R1 is tagged out, and BR is out on the catch.  (And F6 tagging the runner isn't necessarily inconsistent, especially if he wasn't sure it was a catch.

[afaber12]

The original question fails to give enough info.

It just says ball hit to shortstop. Does NOT say if it was caught in air or from the ground.

Methinks that might make a difference.

Obviously not caught in the air based on the ensuing play.

My first thought was exactly that, but . . . if U thought it was caught (say a low line drive that wasn't clear if touched the ground or was caught), then the U's call makes sense: R2 is safe on the bag, R1 is tagged out, and BR is out on the catch. (And F6 tagging the runner isn't necessarily inconsistent, especially if he wasn't sure it was a catch.

Except the OP says F6 tagged R2, tagged 2nd base (not R1) then threw to 1st base. Tagging the runner and the base he's standing on only makes sense if the ball's not caught. You'd only do one of those if the ball was caught in trying to beat the runner back to the base. Then again I've lost count of the number of times I've seen a play on a catch of stepping on the base and then tagging the runner as they got back in range.

I guess it could be part of a "leave no stone unturned" approach in trying to get any and every possible out, but sounds like either the umpire got the call wrong or had a different opinion about the time of tagging the runner compared that of the base.