USSSA Fan EJ

[RingEmUp]

11u USSSA game and I am the BU.  I'm in the C with runners on 1st and 3rd when there is a deep fly ball hit down the line.  I hustle out to watch the F7 as he just missed the catch but the ball kicks up plenty of chalk.  I pointed down trying to help out my partner because I knew he was most likely screened out of seeing the ball.  Partner hesitates then calls foul ball.  This was my first game as the BU all season so I know my mechanics were not the best as I felt rusty out there and inadvertenly put my partner in a bad situation.  Partner ultimately appeals to me and we stick with my fair call.  Coaches for both teams are ok and nothing got out of hand.  We set the runners at 1st and 2nd and award the run to the runner that had been on 3rd.  As PU is setting up for the next batter a parent keeps chirpping and he responded asking her to be quiet and that's when starts talking about us getting paid and he gives her the exit. 

 

I know I messed up but I think my partner messed up even more because of his willingness to engage the fan.  He admitted later that he shouldn't have done that.  Thoughts?

[Thunderheads]

where are you hustling to?  F7 going toward the line is your partners call ....

[Jocko]

1. Why are you in C with runners on the corners?

2. Why on EARTH do you think you have fair/foul from anywhere but A? And then, only from either the cutout or the bag.

3. Why is your partner talking to the fence?

So many whys. I'll leave it here. For now. Looking forward to some answers.@RingEmUp

[RingEmUp]

1. Why are you in C with runners on the corners?

2. Why on EARTH do you think you have fair/foul from anywhere but A? And then, only from either the cutout or the bag.

3. Why is your partner talking to the fence?

So many whys. I'll leave it here. For now. Looking forward to some answers.@RingEmUp

 

1.  This is what I was taught.

2.  This is where I messed up and I knew it right away, which is why I posted here, to learn.  Partner did say he was guessing at the call because he was screened out by the runner, F6, base coach and F2.  So he never really saw the ball land. 

3.  I thought this was the biggest mistake he made and he admitted to it later.  He is a fairly new to umpiring from the way he made it sound. 

[stl_ump]

1. Why are you in C with runners on the corners?

2. Why on EARTH do you think you have fair/foul from anywhere but A? And then, only from either the cutout or the bag.

3. Why is your partner talking to the fence?

So many whys. I'll leave it here. For now. Looking forward to some answers.@RingEmUp

 

Because they / I / we are not all "pros" like some here. 

[blue23ll]

Just curious, if you were going out on the fly ball and your partner was watching for fair/foul, who was watching the base runners?

[Jocko]

@RingEmUp - I applaud your candor. You came to the right place.

1. With runners on the corners, most accepted mechanics have us in B. There are variations, but B is most widely used.

2. During pregame, designate with your partner where your responsibility for Fair/Foul begins. I personally take it from the cutout (when theres a grass infield), but some HPs want it all the way to the bag. Only when you are in A as BU will you EVER have Fair/Foul down the line. And then only the RF line. Never ever LF line. The ball hitting the batter on a swing or possibly an uncaught foul ball (it's not a tip if it's uncaught). Otherwise, your partner has all F/F.

3. Any ball to F7 or F9 that takes him towards the line belongs to HP. You should open your field of vision to see BR touch 1B and possible tagups. The ball isn't yours. You have other responsibilities.

4. Never ever EVER talk to the fence. Ever.

Ev

Er

[grayhawk]

 

1. Why are you in C with runners on the corners?

2. Why on EARTH do you think you have fair/foul from anywhere but A? And then, only from either the cutout or the bag.

3. Why is your partner talking to the fence?

So many whys. I'll leave it here. For now. Looking forward to some answers.@RingEmUp

 

1.  This is what I was taught.

2.  This is where I messed up and I knew it right away, which is why I posted here, to learn.  Partner did say he was guessing at the call because he was screened out by the runner, F6, base coach and F2.  So he never really saw the ball land. 

3.  I thought this was the biggest mistake he made and he admitted to it later.  He is a fairly new to umpiring from the way he made it sound. 

 

 

Pro, college and HS all teach that the BU should be in B with R1 and R3.  Who taught you this?

 

He was screened by 4 people?  Sounds like he didn't gain any distance at all up the 3B line - why else would F2 be in his way?  On this play, he should get up the 3B line as far as the play will allow.  He needs to stay on the line, but take a step left or right, as necessary, to ensure he can get a clear view of the ball.  The base coach needs to stay out of the way - he must have been very close to the bag to block PU's view.

 

EDIT TO ADD:  On a play like this, PU should be up the line anyway because if the ball falls in, he has the play on R1 at third. If not caught, then he needs to judge fair/foul and read R1 to see if a play at third is going to happen.  If it's caught, he needs to judge fair/foul, catch/no catch and see R3's tag at third and then hustle home in foul territory to get back to point of plate for a possible play there. In either case, he should communicate to you verbally that he has the ball.

[noumpere]

 

 

 

 

Pro, college and HS all teach that the BU should be in B with R1 and R3.  Who taught you this?

 

 

Over the years, some mechanics have had the "Be in C whenever theres a runner at second or third" philosophy.

 

It's still used in some areas.  ::

 

What was missed, though -- is never go out from the middle in two man (with I suppose one rare exception).

[grayhawk]

 

 

 

 

 

Pro, college and HS all teach that the BU should be in B with R1 and R3.  Who taught you this?

 

 

Over the years, some mechanics have had the "Be in C whenever theres a runner at second or third" philosophy.

 

It's still used in some areas.  : :

 

What was missed, though -- is never go out from the middle in two man (with I suppose one rare exception).

 

 

While he did say "hustle out" - I'm not sure that meant he crossed into/past the grass line in the infield.  @RingEmUp - please clarify.

[RingEmUp]

 

 

1. Why are you in C with runners on the corners?

2. Why on EARTH do you think you have fair/foul from anywhere but A? And then, only from either the cutout or the bag.

3. Why is your partner talking to the fence?

So many whys. I'll leave it here. For now. Looking forward to some answers.@RingEmUp

 

1.  This is what I was taught.

2.  This is where I messed up and I knew it right away, which is why I posted here, to learn.  Partner did say he was guessing at the call because he was screened out by the runner, F6, base coach and F2.  So he never really saw the ball land. 

3.  I thought this was the biggest mistake he made and he admitted to it later.  He is a fairly new to umpiring from the way he made it sound. 

 

 

Pro, college and HS all teach that the BU should be in B with R1 and R3.  Who taught you this?

 

He was screened by 4 people?  Sounds like he didn't gain any distance at all up the 3B line - why else would F2 be in his way?  On this play, he should get up the 3B line as far as the play will allow.  He needs to stay on the line, but take a step left or right, as necessary, to ensure he can get a clear view of the ball.  The base coach needs to stay out of the way - he must have been very close to the bag to block PU's view.

 

EDIT TO ADD:  On a play like this, PU should be up the line anyway because if the ball falls in, he has the play on R1 at third. If not caught, then he needs to judge fair/foul and read R1 to see if a play at third is going to happen.  If it's caught, he needs to judge fair/foul, catch/no catch and see R3's tag at third and then hustle home in foul territory to get back to point of plate for a possible play there. In either case, he should communicate to you verbally that he has the ball.

 

 

Just getting back into umpiring this year I went to a few preseason trainings and that was how it was taught.  I have recently learned that this guy may not have been the best instructor.  Guys in my area know who I'm talking about.  I'll try to remember to do this from now on. 

 

The PU said he should have done a better job getting into position, so I think we both learned from this experience. 

[RingEmUp]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Pro, college and HS all teach that the BU should be in B with R1 and R3.  Who taught you this?

 

 

Over the years, some mechanics have had the "Be in C whenever theres a runner at second or third" philosophy.

 

It's still used in some areas.  : :

 

What was missed, though -- is never go out from the middle in two man (with I suppose one rare exception).

 

 

While he did say "hustle out" - I'm not sure that meant he crossed into/past the grass line in the infield.  @RingEmUp - please clarify.

 

 

This is correct.  It was more of a hustle over than out as I made sure that I could still see the 3rd base runner out of the corner of my eye.  Up to this point I had been taking all the outfield calls too. 

[Mike Prince]

IMO whether you were in B or C is not the issue here.  In either position you don't have any F/F responsibility, you own R1 and any play on him or the B/R.  You had no responsibility on the fly ball even if it was fair.

 

I understand the spirit of what you were trying to do, the bottom line is that your partner was lazy and anchored behind the plate on a play that ANY 2-man mechanics manual or convention has as a PU responsibility.  But, you can't desert your responsibility because he doesn't hold up his end of the bargain.  He compounded this by letting the voice behind the fence get to him.

 

Sounds like you are both a bit new or rusty, this thread really drives home the importance of proper pregame and statement of responsibilities.

[grayhawk]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Pro, college and HS all teach that the BU should be in B with R1 and R3.  Who taught you this?

 

 

Over the years, some mechanics have had the "Be in C whenever theres a runner at second or third" philosophy.

 

It's still used in some areas.  : :

 

What was missed, though -- is never go out from the middle in two man (with I suppose one rare exception).

 

 

While he did say "hustle out" - I'm not sure that meant he crossed into/past the grass line in the infield.  @RingEmUp - please clarify.

 

 

This is correct.  It was more of a hustle over than out as I made sure that I could still see the 3rd base runner out of the corner of my eye.  Up to this point I had been taking all the outfield calls too. 

 

 

Good to know.  A few things to add:

 

1.  You have no responsibility for R3 on this play - his tag up is PU's.  You need to see R1's tag up, BR possibly passing R1, R1's touch at first, and any possible obstruction.

 

2.  Fly ball responsibility with BU inside is handled a couple of different ways:

 

a.  BU has the "cone" which is F7 straight in or back, all the way to F9 straight in or back.  PU would have all fly balls that take F7 or F9 towards their respective lines.

 

b.  (this is my preference).  BU has ALL fly balls until PU calls him off.  This ensures that both umpires know who has the ball on ones that are in the grey area (such as F7 or F9 coming straight in but veering toward the line at the last second).

[scrounge]

In fairness, it was only last year that NFHS changed it to B from C for runners on the corners

[noumpere]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Pro, college and HS all teach that the BU should be in B with R1 and R3.  Who taught you this?

 

 

Over the years, some mechanics have had the "Be in C whenever theres a runner at second or third" philosophy.

 

It's still used in some areas.  : :

 

What was missed, though -- is never go out from the middle in two man (with I suppose one rare exception).

 

 

While he did say "hustle out" - I'm not sure that meant he crossed into/past the grass line in the infield.  @RingEmUp - please clarify.

 

 

This is correct.  It was more of a hustle over than out as I made sure that I could still see the 3rd base runner out of the corner of my eye.  Up to this point I had been taking all the outfield calls too. 

 

 

Good to know.  A few things to add:

 

1.  You have no responsibility for R3 on this play - his tag up is PU's.  You need to see R1's tag up, BR possibly passing R1, R1's touch at first, and any possible obstruction.

 

2.  Fly ball responsibility with BU inside is handled a couple of different ways:

 

a.  BU has the "cone" which is F7 straight in or back, all the way to F9 straight in or back.  PU would have all fly balls that take F7 or F9 towards their respective lines.

 

b.  (this is my preference).  BU has ALL fly balls until PU calls him off.  This ensures that both umpires know who has the ball on ones that are in the grey area (such as F7 or F9 coming straight in but veering toward the line at the last second).

 

Agreed with all that and will add that you still have responsibility for a play back into third on R3 -- so don't overcommit to the first base side to watch R1 and BR

[JaxRolo]

@RingEmUp Let me know if you want to meet up at a field at some point and we can go over responsibilities for Plate and Base Umpires.

[Thunderheads]

@RingEmUp Let me know if you want to meet up at a field at some point and we can go over responsibilities for Plate and Base Umpires.

Now THIS is a great part of the brotherhood for sure!

[grayhawk]

 

@RingEmUp Let me know if you want to meet up at a field at some point and we can go over responsibilities for Plate and Base Umpires.

Now THIS is a great part of the brotherhood for sure!

 

 

He just wants free beer.  

[Mike Prince]

 

 

@RingEmUp Let me know if you want to meet up at a field at some point and we can go over responsibilities for Plate and Base Umpires.

Now THIS is a great part of the brotherhood for sure!

 

 

He just wants free beer.  

 

The code has been cracked LOL