dead ball appeal at home

[BuckeyeMike]

I did a search for this topic and couldn't find the answer, but SURELY this has been discussed (probably multiple times) on here.  Also, I didn't find the answer in the Fed case book or BRD, which shocked me.

 

BR hits a homerun and then misses home plate.   The catcher says "hey, he missed home plate" right as the 3B coach is coming down the line screaming for his batter to go back and touch the plate (b/c he saw that the batter missed it too).   The batter hasn't reached his dugout yet but is off the dirt circle, mid-way between the plate and dugout.  

 

At what point can you grant the Defense's dead ball appeal and call the BR out ?    Include reference citation please, so I can read it myself.

 

Some say you have to wait until he enters the dugout, as anything short of this is robbing the BR of his full opportunity to complete his base-running responsibilities.   Others say you can ring him up when he's off the dirt circle. 

 

 

[Dash Riprock]

There are no dead ball (missed base) appeals (except FED).  Exiting the dirt circle does not preclude the runner from correcting his mistake.  Not sure if that's true if he enters the dugout.

[noumpere]

See cases 8-2-2M (the play is my summary):
Play: R1 misses the plate in attempting to score. F2 steps on the missed base (a) before R1 attempts to return home; or (b) after R1 attempts to return to touch home plate.  RULING: (a) Upon proper defensive appeal, R1 would be ruled out. (b) Since R1 initiated action prior to the defense touching the plate, R1 must be tagged to record the out.  R1 may legally return to touch home if he has not touched the steps of the dugout and if a subsequent runner has not yet scored.

 

Cases 8-2-2C and E contain similar "prior to initiating a return" language.

 

And, sure, this case was a live ball appeal and the OP is a dead ball appeal -- but I think the same concept applies.

[maven]

I disagree somewhat with @noumpere. Since the ball is dead on the HR, the defense is not entitled to play on the runner by tagging him or HP (the missed base). So the "prior to initiating a return" concept would not apply here.

 

Instead, the BR's window for returning to touch HP is governed by these provisions of 8-2-6, concerning appeals:

 

Dead Ball. The dead-ball appeal may be made: 1) Once all runners have completed their advancement and time has been called, a coach or any defensive player, with or without the ball, may make a verbal appeal on a runner missing a base or leaving a base too soon on a caught fly ball. The administering umpire should then make a decision on the play. 2) If the ball has gone out of play, runners must be given the opportunity to complete their base-running responsibilities before the dead-ball appeal can be made.

May Not Return. A runner may not return to touch a missed base or one left too soon on a caught fly ball if:

1. he has reached a base beyond the base missed or left too soon and the ball becomes dead,

2. he has left the field of play, or

3. a following runner has scored.

 

The only applicable provision to this play is #2. So if the defense appeals verbally before the BR leaves the field, I will wait until the BR's window of opportunity closes before ruling on the appeal. If the defense calls attention to the infraction by a premature appeal, and the BR subsequently corrects his error, the appeal must be denied.

 

And I probably have to toss the DHC...

[noumpere]

The "window to return and retouch" and the "timeframe when an appeal can begin" are different.  And, the difference matters in this play, I think.

[maven]

The "window to return and retouch" and the "timeframe when an appeal can begin" are different.  And, the difference matters in this play, I think.

 

Perhaps. But if the OC is shouting, "touch the plate!" and the DC is shouting, "he missed the plate," I'm not ruling on that appeal...yet.

 

Maybe if he's 5 feet from the dugout, nobody has said a word, and the DC appeals the miss, I'd rule on it. Maybe!

 

I don't see any basis in the rules for claiming that the "window" and "timeframe" overlap...

[johnnyg08]

I think in this case we have to wait to rule until he leaves the field of play. 

[grayhawk]

I disagree somewhat with @noumpere. Since the ball is dead on the HR, the defense is not entitled to play on the runner by tagging him or HP (the missed base). So the "prior to initiating a return" concept would not apply here.

 

Instead, the BR's window for returning to touch HP is governed by these provisions of 8-2-6, concerning appeals:

 

Dead Ball. The dead-ball appeal may be made: 1) Once all runners have completed their advancement and time has been called, a coach or any defensive player, with or without the ball, may make a verbal appeal on a runner missing a base or leaving a base too soon on a caught fly ball. The administering umpire should then make a decision on the play. 2) If the ball has gone out of play, runners must be given the opportunity to complete their base-running responsibilities before the dead-ball appeal can be made.

May Not Return. A runner may not return to touch a missed base or one left too soon on a caught fly ball if:

1. he has reached a base beyond the base missed or left too soon and the ball becomes dead,

2. he has left the field of play, or

3. a following runner has scored.

 

The only applicable provision to this play is #2. So if the defense appeals verbally before the BR leaves the field, I will wait until the BR's window of opportunity closes before ruling on the appeal. If the defense calls attention to the infraction by a premature appeal, and the BR subsequently corrects his error, the appeal must be denied.

 

And I probably have to toss the DHC...

 

I really like how you have laid out your thoughts on this.  Since the runner can still fulfill his baserunning obligations prior to leaving the field of play, and runners MUST be given the opportunity to complete their base running responsibilities when the ball is dead, then no dead ball appeal should be granted until the runner leaves the field of play.

 

My initial thought was since the ball is dead that once the runner misses and the catcher appeals that the out should be called.  However, I think the above gives ample rule support to require the defense to wait until the runner leaves the field before granting the appeal.