Prepare for 2014: Play 9

[maven]

SITUATION: bases loaded, 1 out. The batter hits a high fly ball to deep RF, and R1, R2, and R3 all return to their respective bases to tag up. F9 tries to catch the ball, but it pops out of his glove immediately and lands on the ground. At about the same time, BR rounds 1B, where he dodges F3 moving toward RF. As a result of his avoiding contact with the fielder, BR passes R1, who had not yet left 1B. R3 advances and scores. R2 is thrown out at the plate. F2 then throws down to 2B and retires R1, who was confused by the action around 1B and had not advanced.

 

RULING: ??

[JaxRolo]

Call obs.

Let it play out.

Then call time. R3 scores. R2 out since obs had no bearing on R2.

Award R1 3rd and Br 2nd since obs happened after passing 1st.

[noumpere]

As a result of his avoiding contact with the fielder, BR passes R1,

 

retires R1, who was confused by the action around 1B and had not advanced.

 

RULING: ??

I'm having trouble envisioning all this taking it at face value as written, the "passing" is ignored. 

 

If you think the OBS was also the cause of R1 not making it to second award that.  So R3 scores, R2 is out for the second out, R1 at second, Br at first.

 

If not, r1 is the third out and is forced so no runs score.

[ALStripes17]

I'm assuming FED with my response: B1 must be awarded 2B if OBS occurs after he passed 1B. Side thought: Since that OBS award would force R1 to 3B, is he (R1) protected in any way? Other than that, I am struggling to picture a scenario where B1 is OBS by F3 past 1B but has not passed R1, who is tagging up at 1B.

[grayhawk]

As a result of his avoiding contact with the fielder, BR passes R1,

retires R1, who was confused by the action around 1B and had not advanced.

RULING: ??

I'm having trouble envisioning all this taking it at face value as written, the "passing" is ignored.

If you think the OBS was also the cause of R1 not making it to second award that. So R3 scores, R2 is out for the second out, R1 at second, Br at first.

If not, r1 is the third out and is forced so no runs score.

I agree with this for OBR. It doesn't sound like R1 would have made it to third if not for the obstruction, and it doesn't sound like BR would have made it to second if not for the obstruction.

In Fed, as Rolo says, if the OBS happened after BR reached first, then he would have to be awarded second which would move R1 to third.

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[kanedog]

BR is out for passing an unobstructed runner (R1 who was standing on first, HP umpires call if he's not on the line for RF call). 2nd out. R3 scores and R2 is the third out. The rundown shouldn't occur.

The OBS shouldn't have any bearing on this play because the BR is out once he rounds the base and R1 is standing there. I can't envision where F3's action causes the BR to pass R1. He's already past the bag where R1 is tagging.

[grayhawk]

The OP clearly states that F3 caused BR to pass R1. If you don't call OBS on F3, you are hosing the offense something awful.

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[maven]

Sorry some of this action is difficult to picture, but as we all know weird stuff happens on the field.

 

Here's one way F3's OBS could cause the BR to pass R1. Suppose F3 is positioned near 1B, 6-8 feet inside fair territory, just on the RF side of the line connecting the bases. For some reason, as BR approaches 1B, F3 dashes toward foul territory, about 5 feet past 1B. The BR touches 1B and, to avoid colliding with F3 right in front of him, steps to his left. In so doing, he nearly collides with R1 and passes him.

 

Even better, suppose BR knocks R1 down and then passes him. Pretty clear case of 1 act of OBS affecting 2 runners that way.

[noumpere]

The OP clearly states that F3 caused BR to pass R1. If you don't call OBS on F3, you are hosing the offense something awful.

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And it also states that R1 was on the base.  So, the OBS must have happened before BR reached first.

[blue23ll]

Not sure we can ignore the passing of the runner at 1b on this one.

[kanedog]

The OP clearly states that F3 caused BR to pass R1. If you don't call OBS on F3, you are hosing the offense something awful. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If BR passed R1 while he was standing on the base, how can F3's action have any bearing on the passing if F3 was in fair territory? The only way BR can get into fair territory would be to pass R1 who is standing on the bag.

[kanedog]

Sorry some of this action is difficult to picture, but as we all know weird stuff happens on the field.

 

Here's one way F3's OBS could cause the BR to pass R1. Suppose F3 is positioned near 1B, 6-8 feet inside fair territory, just on the RF side of the line connecting the bases. For some reason, as BR approaches 1B, F3 dashes toward foul territory, about 5 feet past 1B. The BR touches 1B and, to avoid colliding with F3 right in front of him, steps to his left. In so doing, he nearly collides with R1 and passes him.

 

Even better, suppose BR knocks R1 down and then passes him. Pretty clear case of 1 act of OBS affecting 2 runners that way.

I agree but that's not your original play.

[grayhawk]

The OP clearly states that F3 caused BR to pass R1. If you don't call OBS on F3, you are hosing the offense something awful. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If BR passed R1 while he was standing on the base, how can F3's action have any bearing on the passing if F3 was in fair territory? The only way BR can get into fair territory would be to pass R1 who is standing on the bag.

Irrelevant. We have to use info from the OP to answer and the OP said F3 caused it.

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[JaxRolo]

 

The OP clearly states that F3 caused BR to pass R1. If you don't call OBS on F3, you are hosing the offense something awful. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If BR passed R1 while he was standing on the base, how can F3's action have any bearing on the passing if F3 was in fair territory? The only way BR can get into fair territory would be to pass R1 who is standing on the bag.

 

 

There is always a way. Weird things happen all the time!

[JaxRolo]

Let's not make this more complicated. Lets just answer the OP as stated assuming OBS before passing R1.

 

 

We always start with the "ifs" and "butts" and go away from original OP.

[ALStripes17]

FED: B1 is awarded OBS to 2B: Is R1 protected to 3rd or is R1 still the 3rd out on the force at 2B? If R1 is out on force in OP, no runs score.

[ALStripes17]

Call obs.

Let it play out.

Then call time. R3 scores. R2 out since obs had no bearing on R2.

Award R1 3rd and Br 2nd since obs happened after passing 1st.

How do you award R1 3rd, but call R2 out at the plate?

[JaxRolo]

 

Call obs.

Let it play out.

Then call time. R3 scores. R2 out since obs had no bearing on R2.

Award R1 3rd and Br 2nd since obs happened after passing 1st.

How do you award R1 3rd, but call R2 out at the plate?

 

R2 protected to 3rd not home. He is own his own.

[ALStripes17]

So do you have overlap of protection? Bc if R2 is protected to only 3rd, you would think R1 would be protected to 2B, and B1 was protected to only 1B (which doesn't align with FED and OP since B1 must be protected to 2B. ). We agree that R2 was not affected by OBS and should be called out at plate, but R1 was not affected by the OBS either so would his force at 2B stand?

[JaxRolo]

So do you have overlap of protection? Bc if R2 is protected to only 3rd, you would think R1 would be protected to 2B, and B1 was protected to only 1B (which doesn't align with FED and OP since B1 must be protected to 2B. ). We agree that R2 was not affected by OBS and should be called out at plate, but R1 was not affected by the OBS either so would his force at 2B stand?

Then maybe R2 is protected all the way home.

 

I could be wrong on my initial assessment.

I will let the real experts chime in.

[noumpere]

 

Call obs.

Let it play out.

Then call time. R3 scores. R2 out since obs had no bearing on R2.

Award R1 3rd and Br 2nd since obs happened after passing 1st.

How do you award R1 3rd, but call R2 out at the plate?

 

Going away from the OP -- you can protect R1 to second but then award him third if the award to BR "forces" R1 to advance from second to third.

[ALStripes17]

Going away from the OP -- you can protect R1 to second but then award him third if the award to BR "forces" R1 to advance from second to third.

Agreed. Now the question is: can/do you protect runners not involved with the OBS?

In game situation at first glance of the OP, I would call the OBS (hold that fist out!!!), R2 is out at plate for 2nd out, R1 is out at 2B on force for 3rd out. No runs score and B1 is credited with a FC in the box score.

Sorry kid, no RBI, no base hit, no prom queen

[noumpere]

 

Going away from the OP -- you can protect R1 to second but then award him third if the award to BR "forces" R1 to advance from second to third.

Agreed. Now the question is: can/do you protect runners not involved with the OBS?

In game situation at first glance of the OP, I would call the OBS (hold that fist out!!!), R2 is out at plate for 2nd out, R1 is out at 2B on force for 3rd out. No runs score and B1 is credited with a FC in the box score.

Sorry kid, no RBI, no base hit, no prom queen

 

You can make whatever awards you deem necessary to nullify the OBS.  that might or might not change your answer.

 

and I'm pretty sure FED dropped the "left fist out" signal for DDB.

[JaxRolo]

 

Going away from the OP -- you can protect R1 to second but then award him third if the award to BR "forces" R1 to advance from second to third.

Agreed. Now the question is: can/do you protect runners not involved with the OBS?

In game situation at first glance of the OP, I would call the OBS (hold that fist out!!!), R2 is out at plate for 2nd out, R1 is out at 2B on force for 3rd out. No runs score and B1 is credited with a FC in the box score.

Sorry kid, no RBI, no base hit, no prom queen

 

No more holding out fist- in FED

[grayhawk]

Let's not forget this part of the OP:

"R1, who was confused by the action around 1B and had not advanced."

If that's what I'm judging, I'm not allowing the out on R1 to stand.

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