Uncaught Third Strike

[Scratch Franzeo]

 

I've always been on the fence for this subject. On one hand if you don't verbalize it the two players that need to know more than anyone else on the field can't see a physical mechanic. But on the other hand verbalizing it can often lead to controversy and in a situation like that not everyone is going to hear what you say clearly and they will end up hearing what they want to hear. I don't ever verbalize it because of that situation and generally at the higher levels F2 will always throw out a quick tag on the BR and the BR will always at least make an advance towards first until he hears he is out.

The only 2 people who need to hear are the batter and F2....you need to let everyone know... if an outfielder or infielder traps a ball do you verbalize it or just give a signal?

 

Great analogy!!!

[Richvee]

 

 

 

 

From the Jim Evans Maximizing the Two-Umpire System, Communication and Signaling, Uncaught Third Strike, Section 12.26, pg 270:

 

Uncaught Third Strike

 

When a called or swinging third strike is not legally caught by the catcher and the batter is legally entitled to advance, the umpire shall signal the strike and then indicate that the ball was not legally secured before touching the ground.

 

(Visual "Hammer" strike 3!)

(Visual "Safe" mechanic, saying "No catch! No catch")

(Visual right hand pointing to ground in front of you, saying "Ball hit the ground")

 

Two Considerations When the Plate Umpire Does Not Make an Immediate Call:

 

1. The plate umpire may take a quick glance at his base umpire. The base umpire shall discreetly display a closed fist indicating that the catcher legally secured the ball and the batter is out; or, he may discreetly point to the ground indicating that the ball was not legally caught before touching the ground. In either case, the base umpire uses no verbal communication.

 

2. If the plate umpire does not take the quick glance but decides subsequently that he needs help, he shall step out directly toward his partner and ask loudly, "Did he catch it?" The base umpire should respond with an emphatic "Yes, he caught it!" while displaying  a closed fist chest high, or "No, he didn't!" Ball hit the ground!" while aggressively pointing to the ground with the index finger of his right hand.

 

Note: It is important that this exchange take place as quickly as possible so that the batter-runner is not deprived of any opportunity to advance if the ball was not legally secured.

 

(End of Jim Evans)

 

 

(Note the differences between Wendelstedt and Jim Evans)

 

 

Just passing along what the manuals say. No offense meant to those whose signals/mechanics may be a hair different, but offered as a basis for fundamental training.

Just wondering what edition your Evans book is. Mine is second edition and he changed this up a little. 

 

Chapter2.16 Dropped third strike

 

The plate umpire should always use two distinct mechanics to differentiate between the call of the strike and a legal catch of the pitch.......If legally caught the umpire would signal the strike then signal that the batter is out. If the catcher does not legally catch the ball, the umpire should signal the strike then indicate physically and verbally...by pointing to the ground and stating "ball's on the ground" or "No Catch". 

 

In cases where the plate umpire does not signal or indicate that the ball was on the ground and the base umpire clearly thinks it was, the base umpire may be able to assist his partner by verbally stating and pointing "ball's on the ground, "Ball's in the dirt", or No Catch". If this happens, the plate umpire should echo his partner....

[Texas Manny]

@Richvee,

 

The Jim Evans book I received a few weeks ago has the following registration information within it:

 

Copyright © 2008, 2009, 2011 by Jim Evans Academy of Professional Umpiring

 

Third Edition

 

ISBN 978-1-4243-1636-6

 

 

Whenever I quote from the manuals, I am giving you the information word by word, hence the proper citing to ensure copyright protections.

[Richvee]

@Texas Manny

 

Then he's changed it up from the 2nd edition I bought last year. Thanks! Good to know. 

[Texas Manny]

@Texas Manny

 

Then he's changed it up from the 2nd edition I bought last year. Thanks! Good to know. 

Not a problem Rich. Glad to be of service. Got your back. We're all here to help.

[Richvee]

 

@Texas Manny

 

Then he's changed it up from the 2nd edition I bought last year. Thanks! Good to know. 

Not a problem Rich. Glad to be of service. Got your back. We're all here to help.

 

Makes me wonder what else he's changed in this 3rd edition. 

[Texas Manny]

 

Also verbalizing "that's a catch" when it is not a U3K but near the ground, gives F2/B the info needed, instead of them wondering if you had the out or are giving a non-verbal safe mechanic behind their backs. Why would we want F2 to take time to look around to find this info when there are possible outs to be gotten at other bases.

 

I do this, and it seems to work well.

 

Please allow me to make the following suggestion: By saying "That's a catch!" on a 1st or 2nd strike, you are actually aiding the offense and may confuse the defense. The only time you should declare a "No catch!" or "Ball's in the dirt!" is on the third strike, when appropriate under rule. The catcher and batter should realize what's going on during the time at bat. Remain neutral and let the game play itself.

[grayhawk]

 

 

Also verbalizing "that's a catch" when it is not a U3K but near the ground, gives F2/B the info needed, instead of them wondering if you had the out or are giving a non-verbal safe mechanic behind their backs. Why would we want F2 to take time to look around to find this info when there are possible outs to be gotten at other bases.

 

I do this, and it seems to work well.

 

By doing that not on a dropped or dirt third strike, aka 1st or 2nd strike, you are actually aiding the offense and may confuse the defense. The only time you should declare a "No catch!" or "Ball's in the dirt!" is on the third strike, when appropriate under rule. The catcher and batter should realize what's going on during the time at bat.

 

 

I think you are misunderstanding what Ricka wrote.  He's saying on a THIRD strike only (not 1st or second), when you judge that it's caught but it's close to the ground, go ahead and declare verbally "that's a catch" so that both the batter and F2 know the status of the ball without having to look back.  Same reason as declaring "no catch" or "ball hit the ground" when it's close but NOT caught.

[Texas Manny]

 

 

 

Also verbalizing "that's a catch" when it is not a U3K but near the ground, gives F2/B the info needed, instead of them wondering if you had the out or are giving a non-verbal safe mechanic behind their backs. Why would we want F2 to take time to look around to find this info when there are possible outs to be gotten at other bases.

 

I do this, and it seems to work well.

 

By doing that not on a dropped or dirt third strike, aka 1st or 2nd strike, you are actually aiding the offense and may confuse the defense. The only time you should declare a "No catch!" or "Ball's in the dirt!" is on the third strike, when appropriate under rule. The catcher and batter should realize what's going on during the time at bat.

 

 

I think you are misunderstanding what Ricka wrote.  He's saying on a THIRD strike only (not 1st or second), when you judge that it's caught but it's close to the ground, go ahead and declare verbally "that's a catch" so that both the batter and F2 know the status of the ball without having to look back.  Same reason as declaring "no catch" or "ball hit the ground" when it's close but NOT caught.

 

I was interpreting his quote "not a U3K but near the ground..." to mean not on a third strike. I took that to mean 1st or 2nd strike. On a 3rd strike I totally agree, unless 1st and 2nd are occupied with less than 2 outs. At that point the batter is out regardless.

 

My apologies if I misunderstood.

[ricka56]

Instead of calling it not uncaught I should have just called it caught...duh. Double negative...my mistake.