Chirping

[BigUmpire]

So I want to get as much feedback as I can on situations with coaches and what to allow and what to react to so I can improve in this area.  Yesterday I had a High School summer ball DH between two JV teams.  I had the dish for the first game and the VT coach was one of those guys that seems to think coaches are obligated to yell at their players and whine to the umpires about every close call in order to try and influence calls to go their way.

 

So in the second inning I ring up one of his players for the second out of the inning the VT coach is in the third base box and he says "come on you just stole an at bat from the kid".  He didn't yell it but said it loud enough for most to hear it.  An inning later while his pitcher is on the mound, with 2 strikes on the batter, I call a ball that started off the plate and broke into the LH batters box.  The batter was fooled by the pitch and started his swing but held up.  Catcher asked for appeal which I asked for and BU signaled no swing.  VT coach , from the dugout, says "should have been a called strike".  A few innings later while his team is batting I ring one of his players up on two consecutive pitches that he looked at.  Both were borderline pitches.  After the first the VT coach laughed from the 3rd base coaches box.  After the second he said "you've got to be kidding me".  All these instances were said without an raising of his voice and he never said them directly to me, except for the first one.

 

After I rung the kid with the two looking strikes the coach comes up to me on his way to give the other coach some substitutions and this his how the conversation goes:

 

Coach:  How are those strikes?

Me: They are over the plate.

Coach: But they are at his ankles.

Me: No they aren't.

Coach: Well we aren't getting those calls.

Me: Yes you are.

Coach: Look I'm trying to be patient here. . .but it's 90 degrees out here.

Me: So am I. (I said this as he was mentioning the temperature.  Plus this was said very firmly, with intended message being for his to drop it).

Coach:  Just call the zone (as he's walking away)

 

Once again in none of these instances did the coach every raise his voice.

 

Should I have done something sooner or was I okay in ignoring most of the earlier stuff?

Are you a teacher during the day?

[umpire_scott]

 

So I want to get as much feedback as I can on situations with coaches and what to allow and what to react to so I can improve in this area.  Yesterday I had a High School summer ball DH between two JV teams.  I had the dish for the first game and the VT coach was one of those guys that seems to think coaches are obligated to yell at their players and whine to the umpires about every close call in order to try and influence calls to go their way.

 

So in the second inning I ring up one of his players for the second out of the inning the VT coach is in the third base box and he says "come on you just stole an at bat from the kid".  He didn't yell it but said it loud enough for most to hear it.  An inning later while his pitcher is on the mound, with 2 strikes on the batter, I call a ball that started off the plate and broke into the LH batters box.  The batter was fooled by the pitch and started his swing but held up.  Catcher asked for appeal which I asked for and BU signaled no swing.  VT coach , from the dugout, says "should have been a called strike".  A few innings later while his team is batting I ring one of his players up on two consecutive pitches that he looked at.  Both were borderline pitches.  After the first the VT coach laughed from the 3rd base coaches box.  After the second he said "you've got to be kidding me".  All these instances were said without an raising of his voice and he never said them directly to me, except for the first one.

 

After I rung the kid with the two looking strikes the coach comes up to me on his way to give the other coach some substitutions and this his how the conversation goes:

 

Coach:  How are those strikes?

Me: They are over the plate.

Coach: But they are at his ankles.

Me: No they aren't.

Coach: Well we aren't getting those calls.

Me: Yes you are.

Coach: Look I'm trying to be patient here. . .but it's 90 degrees out here.

Me: So am I. (I said this as he was mentioning the temperature.  Plus this was said very firmly, with intended message being for his to drop it).

Coach:  Just call the zone (as he's walking away)

 

Once again in none of these instances did the coach every raise his voice.

 

Should I have done something sooner or was I okay in ignoring most of the earlier stuff?

Are you a teacher during the day?

 

 

Yes I am.

[blue23ll]

 

 

So I want to get as much feedback as I can on situations with coaches and what to allow and what to react to so I can improve in this area.  Yesterday I had a High School summer ball DH between two JV teams.  I had the dish for the first game and the VT coach was one of those guys that seems to think coaches are obligated to yell at their players and whine to the umpires about every close call in order to try and influence calls to go their way.

 

So in the second inning I ring up one of his players for the second out of the inning the VT coach is in the third base box and he says "come on you just stole an at bat from the kid".  He didn't yell it but said it loud enough for most to hear it.  An inning later while his pitcher is on the mound, with 2 strikes on the batter, I call a ball that started off the plate and broke into the LH batters box.  The batter was fooled by the pitch and started his swing but held up.  Catcher asked for appeal which I asked for and BU signaled no swing.  VT coach , from the dugout, says "should have been a called strike".  A few innings later while his team is batting I ring one of his players up on two consecutive pitches that he looked at.  Both were borderline pitches.  After the first the VT coach laughed from the 3rd base coaches box.  After the second he said "you've got to be kidding me".  All these instances were said without an raising of his voice and he never said them directly to me, except for the first one.

 

After I rung the kid with the two looking strikes the coach comes up to me on his way to give the other coach some substitutions and this his how the conversation goes:

 

Coach:  How are those strikes?

Me: They are over the plate.

Coach: But they are at his ankles.

Me: No they aren't.

Coach: Well we aren't getting those calls.

Me: Yes you are.

Coach: Look I'm trying to be patient here. . .but it's 90 degrees out here.

Me: So am I. (I said this as he was mentioning the temperature.  Plus this was said very firmly, with intended message being for his to drop it).

Coach:  Just call the zone (as he's walking away)

 

Once again in none of these instances did the coach every raise his voice.

 

Should I have done something sooner or was I okay in ignoring most of the earlier stuff?

Are you a teacher during the day?

 

 

Yes I am.

 

 

I believe we teach more effectively by control and enforcement, versus lecture and demonstration. Unless of course this is a classroom training session, which the field is NOT.

[BigUmpire]

 

 

So I want to get as much feedback as I can on situations with coaches and what to allow and what to react to so I can improve in this area.  Yesterday I had a High School summer ball DH between two JV teams.  I had the dish for the first game and the VT coach was one of those guys that seems to think coaches are obligated to yell at their players and whine to the umpires about every close call in order to try and influence calls to go their way.

 

So in the second inning I ring up one of his players for the second out of the inning the VT coach is in the third base box and he says "come on you just stole an at bat from the kid".  He didn't yell it but said it loud enough for most to hear it.  An inning later while his pitcher is on the mound, with 2 strikes on the batter, I call a ball that started off the plate and broke into the LH batters box.  The batter was fooled by the pitch and started his swing but held up.  Catcher asked for appeal which I asked for and BU signaled no swing.  VT coach , from the dugout, says "should have been a called strike".  A few innings later while his team is batting I ring one of his players up on two consecutive pitches that he looked at.  Both were borderline pitches.  After the first the VT coach laughed from the 3rd base coaches box.  After the second he said "you've got to be kidding me".  All these instances were said without an raising of his voice and he never said them directly to me, except for the first one.

 

After I rung the kid with the two looking strikes the coach comes up to me on his way to give the other coach some substitutions and this his how the conversation goes:

 

Coach:  How are those strikes?

Me: They are over the plate.

Coach: But they are at his ankles.

Me: No they aren't.

Coach: Well we aren't getting those calls.

Me: Yes you are.

Coach: Look I'm trying to be patient here. . .but it's 90 degrees out here.

Me: So am I. (I said this as he was mentioning the temperature.  Plus this was said very firmly, with intended message being for his to drop it).

Coach:  Just call the zone (as he's walking away)

 

Once again in none of these instances did the coach every raise his voice.

 

Should I have done something sooner or was I okay in ignoring most of the earlier stuff?

Are you a teacher during the day?

 

 

Yes I am.

 

Most teachers have been trained OR pushed into giving too much rope.

They would rather OR have been forced into a routine of talking out a problem vs fixing it because they rarely get backed up by school administration. 

 

Honestly based on how you post here I think your personality and day job is hindering you from making it. You may want to find another was to make some cash.

 

Sorry Just the way I feel.

[umpire_scott]

 

 

 

So I want to get as much feedback as I can on situations with coaches and what to allow and what to react to so I can improve in this area.  Yesterday I had a High School summer ball DH between two JV teams.  I had the dish for the first game and the VT coach was one of those guys that seems to think coaches are obligated to yell at their players and whine to the umpires about every close call in order to try and influence calls to go their way.

 

So in the second inning I ring up one of his players for the second out of the inning the VT coach is in the third base box and he says "come on you just stole an at bat from the kid".  He didn't yell it but said it loud enough for most to hear it.  An inning later while his pitcher is on the mound, with 2 strikes on the batter, I call a ball that started off the plate and broke into the LH batters box.  The batter was fooled by the pitch and started his swing but held up.  Catcher asked for appeal which I asked for and BU signaled no swing.  VT coach , from the dugout, says "should have been a called strike".  A few innings later while his team is batting I ring one of his players up on two consecutive pitches that he looked at.  Both were borderline pitches.  After the first the VT coach laughed from the 3rd base coaches box.  After the second he said "you've got to be kidding me".  All these instances were said without an raising of his voice and he never said them directly to me, except for the first one.

 

After I rung the kid with the two looking strikes the coach comes up to me on his way to give the other coach some substitutions and this his how the conversation goes:

 

Coach:  How are those strikes?

Me: They are over the plate.

Coach: But they are at his ankles.

Me: No they aren't.

Coach: Well we aren't getting those calls.

Me: Yes you are.

Coach: Look I'm trying to be patient here. . .but it's 90 degrees out here.

Me: So am I. (I said this as he was mentioning the temperature.  Plus this was said very firmly, with intended message being for his to drop it).

Coach:  Just call the zone (as he's walking away)

 

Once again in none of these instances did the coach every raise his voice.

 

Should I have done something sooner or was I okay in ignoring most of the earlier stuff?

Are you a teacher during the day?

 

 

Yes I am.

 

Most teachers have been trained OR pushed into giving too much rope.

 

They would rather OR have been forced into a routine of talking out a problem vs fixing it because they rarely get backed up by school administration. 

 

 

 

 

Honestly based on how you post here I think your personality and day job is hindering you from making it. You may want to find another was to make some cash.

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry Just the way I feel.

 

 

 

No need to apologize for your opinion.  All different types of personalities "make it".  And I think there is a difference between "making it" and "making money".  I have umpired well over 100 games this year and I've only run into a handful of umpires that I would say are noticeably better than me.  I've run into far more that are noticeably worse than me.  There are guys that are umpiring youth tournaments every weekend that hardly ever take their mask off when behind the plate, let alone come out to the working area or follow the runner up the first base line.  I witness horrible redass umpires every weekend.  Each organization I work for I get assigned games and become one of their better more respected umpires partly because of my demeanor on the field.  I recognize that my demeanor will have to change as I progress, but I'm not even certain how far I want to progress.  I may be happy simply being the best youth umpire I can be.  And as it stands I can do that and make a lot more money than any other part time job out there.

 

I think one thing you need to realize is that a lot of the younger more inexperienced umpires on here are probably not as honest as I am.  They want to impress the others on the board so they embellish their stories and are probably not as accomplished as they say.  I've met many umpires whose game on the field does not resemble what they say off it.

[soapbox]

Wow.  So Scott can go out and work the games.  Read the rulebook.  Post on here and try to get better.  And sight unseen, he should seek other work because some don't like the way he communicates.  Sometimes, I feel that for a bunch of guys that mostly work 8U to H.S, we are a little hard on one another.  It takes so many games until you get the confidence and control of these games.  Scott, keep working on it and if you love it, I have all the confidence you will do better than fine.

[BigUmp56]

I've said it before, Scott. My guess is that you're a pretty good umpire. Your passion alone for the vocation would suggest as much. But it's time for you to take that leap I was talking about in the topic I posted today. You're arguing game management with guys that are pretty good as amature umpires.

 

Tim.

[BigUmpire]

Wow.  So Scott can go out and work the games.  Read the rulebook.  Post on here and try to get better.  And sight unseen, he should seek other work because some don't like the way he communicates.  Sometimes, I feel that for a bunch of guys that mostly work 8U to H.S, we are a little hard on one another.  It takes so many games until you get the confidence and control of these games.  Scott, keep working on it and if you love it, I have all the confidence you will do better than fine.

Some people have it, some people don't.

Scotts communication skills and postings here makes me believe he does not have it.

This is very important: Not everyone is cut out for this.

Being an umpire is VERY hard.

Game management is the key.

 

Only my opinion.

[soapbox]

Here's my response.  You're dam right it can be tough.  I do it for the payday because I need too.  But I enjoy it also.  I don't enjoy going out there and listening to some coach who is also out there for a payday riding me because he feels like it.  We go out and judge impartially on the field.  On this forum, some just judge.  I agree with Scott.  Many talk a good game on the board.  Maybe everyone here is that good.  I don't know, haven't seen your work.  I choose not to judge Scott because I haven't seen him.  If I did, I still wouldn't.  If he wanted pointers, I'd give them to him.  I'd like to think if I got constructive criticism, I could improve.  We umpire youth ball.  I read on here about coach pitch situations.  Little kids playing a game.  We talk about ourselves like we're working Yankee Stadium.  I'm criticized for trying to be too friendly.  Point taken.  If I know I'm in the "Hornets Nest" field, I say nothing and be as professional as possible.  I've had that blow up on me as not looking like I want to be there.  I've worked about 500 games the last 3 seasons and do my best.  There is a shortage of guys/gals going out to do this in our area.  This is a part-time profession for most of us.  Judge fairly.  And please stop thinking that you are all better than someone else.  Will be my last post.  Good luck Scott.

[BigUmpire]

Here's my response.  You're dam right it can be tough.  I do it for the payday because I need too.  But I enjoy it also.  I don't enjoy going out there and listening to some coach who is also out there for a payday riding me because he feels like it.  We go out and judge impartially on the field.  On this forum, some just judge.  I agree with Scott.  Many talk a good game on the board.  Maybe everyone here is that good.  I don't know, haven't seen your work.  I choose not to judge Scott because I haven't seen him.  If I did, I still wouldn't.  If he wanted pointers, I'd give them to him.  I'd like to think if I got constructive criticism, I could improve.  We umpire youth ball.  I read on here about coach pitch situations.  Little kids playing a game.  We talk about ourselves like we're working Yankee Stadium.  I'm criticized for trying to be too friendly.  Point taken.  If I know I'm in the "Hornets Nest" field, I say nothing and be as professional as possible.  I've had that blow up on me as not looking like I want to be there.  I've worked about 500 games the last 3 seasons and do my best.  There is a shortage of guys/gals going out to do this in our area.  This is a part-time profession for most of us.  Judge fairly.  And please stop thinking that you are all better than someone else.  Will be my last post.  Good luck Scott.

I haven’t kept a game fee in 2 years.

I put it in a fund I use to equip young umpires.

If anyone is doing this JUST for the money good luck!

I have been umpiring for 26 years from 8u to D2.

4 national championships, 6 state championships.

Currently spend most of my time training and mentoring 4 young umps.

I am trained evaluator and a trained observer in my professional life.

I am better because I have done this longer at all levels with lots of umpires.

Scott does not work for me. He can do as he wishes. He is in a tough part of the US. I am from there.

There are lots of people that put on the uniform/gear for years that really STINK.

All about attitude NOT aptitude.

[BigUmp56]

Feeling a little thin skinned today? Sorry, but you can't take a frustrated comment by one person and try and define the rest of the group. I don't think anyone can fully "judge" anyone else without actually seeing them work a game or two. But it's pretty easy to form an opinion of Scott's game management short comings. He's either umpiring in some of the worst leagues with the biggest a-holes as coaches, or his game management needs serious improvement. Go back and look at the topics he's started in the past month, and you'll see a pattern of issues in his games where things go to hell in a hand cart. It seems like it's at least three times a week he has troubles in his games. When he decides to either listen to the more experienced guys here, or attend high level clinics where he'll hear the same things, he's not going to show much improvement in this area of his game.

 

 

Tim.

[soapbox]

Yes Tim, that's it.  Nailed it on the head.

[Jglopez7]

In the camp I attended I was taught "Ignore, acknowledge with mask on (just a look at the dugout), warn, EJECT"

[th3]

Here's my response.  You're dam right it can be tough.  I do it for the payday because I need too.  But I enjoy it also.  I don't enjoy going out there and listening to some coach who is also out there for a payday riding me because he feels like it.  We go out and judge impartially on the field.  On this forum, some just judge.  I agree with Scott.  Many talk a good game on the board.  Maybe everyone here is that good.  I don't know, haven't seen your work.  I choose not to judge Scott because I haven't seen him.  If I did, I still wouldn't.  If he wanted pointers, I'd give them to him.  I'd like to think if I got constructive criticism, I could improve.  We umpire youth ball.  I read on here about coach pitch situations.  Little kids playing a game.  We talk about ourselves like we're working Yankee Stadium.  I'm criticized for trying to be too friendly.  Point taken.  If I know I'm in the "Hornets Nest" field, I say nothing and be as professional as possible.  I've had that blow up on me as not looking like I want to be there.  I've worked about 500 games the last 3 seasons and do my best.  There is a shortage of guys/gals going out to do this in our area.  This is a part-time profession for most of us.  Judge fairly.  And please stop thinking that you are all better than someone else.  Will be my last post.  Good luck Scott.

i wasn't really criticizing...

[BRUMP]

There is a difference between umpiring because you need a supplemental income and looking like your only their for the money.

[blue23ll]

In the camp I attended I was taught "Ignore, acknowledge with mask on (just a look at the dugout), warn, EJECT"

 

I ignore the first chirp about balls and strikes that I hear. On the next one,  I combine steps 2 and 3. I say something like," I hear you (name), and we aren't going there today, knock it off !", if I hear them again...bye bye.

[BigUmpire]

There is a difference between umpiring because you need a supplemental income and looking like your only their for the money.

Very True.

[LMSANS]

...Not liking where this is heading.....GET BACK ON TOPIC Quickly!!!!!

[BigUmpire]

...Not liking where this is heading.....GET BACK ON TOPIC Quickly!!!!!

This guy was asking for advice. I gave it.

[Magic]

Scott, How long have you been umpiring? Game management is a feel. It is not a science. I have been doing this for 20+ years and I still learn every day I am on the field. I would listen to as many people as you can. And take little bits from them and work it into your game. But only work in what you like. Staring at a Coach works wonders. I would suggest you try it for a few games. And see if you like it. If it works as well for you as it does for most of us, you might want to work it into your games. If it doesn't? Throw it in the trash and move on. 

 

As far as getting paid for umpiring? I tell everyone the same story. I umpire because I love to umpire. My wife allows me to umpire because she gets paid for it.

[Jesse]

 

So I guess the main message is that I should only "ignore" once.  I think that will be a good thought process to take into my next games.  I will ignore the first comment.  I like the IAWE.

 

I might change it to IWE though.  I don't know that I like the idea of just staring at a coach.  I get the concept as I use it on my students, but it seems rather disrespectful to do it to an adult.

 

It depends on what the first comment is. That coach said you stole an at bat from the kid. I'm addressing that right when I hear it. I may say something very sternly like, "Coach, that's unacceptable. If I hear another comment like that from you, I will run you." You gotta put a stop to that horse$hit right away. You have to exert yourself and show who is in control of the game. That's what an umpire must do.

 

While I somewhat agree with your approach to the situation, I don't think threatening a coach is the best route. A stern comment addressing the situation should suffice ("knock it off, that's enough, don't start with me"...etc). They know that they've been warned after a comment like that and what happens next is perfectly justified.

 

As for umpiring just for the money: I'm a 19-year-old kid working his way through college. I certainly need the money but I still travel at least an hour or more to each game because I love doing what I do. Of course I'll never come out on top financially, but i don't really care.

 

It's a hobby for me and if it ever becomes a job, I'll know it's time to hang it up.

[NCAAump2]

I would avoid saying something like "don't start with me." That makes you sound like a redass and completely unapproachable, which is the opposite of what you want.

As far as the money, I consider umpiring a challenge, and I truly love what I do. The money is nice, but I enjoy the game of baseball, and strive to call my best game, everyday. I've told myself that once it's not fun anymore, I'm done. Until then: play ball!

[SJA]

They say the eyes are the windows of the world. A "snap" 3 second sincere glare should do the trick. Let him / them see what is behind those windows. They'll get the message. Works 99% of the time. 

 

SJA

[umpire_scott]

Scott, How long have you been umpiring? Game management is a feel. It is not a science. I have been doing this for 20+ years and I still learn every day I am on the field. I would listen to as many people as you can. And take little bits from them and work it into your game. But only work in what you like. Staring at a Coach works wonders. I would suggest you try it for a few games. And see if you like it. If it works as well for you as it does for most of us, you might want to work it into your games. If it doesn't? Throw it in the trash and move on. 

 

As far as getting paid for umpiring? I tell everyone the same story. I umpire because I love to umpire. My wife allows me to umpire because she gets paid for it.

 

My background is that I started umpiring about 13 years ago when I went back to school to become a teacher.  While I was in school (2000-2005) I umpired quite a bit from 10U up through freshman in high school both baseball and softball.  I also officiated basketball and football as this was my main source of income while in school.  I wasn't "just collecting a paycheck" but I also had no real intention of doing it long-term.  As soon as I got my degree and started teaching I also started coaching basketball at my school.  So I did very little umpiring during this time.  So from 2005 to 2011 I only did about 50 games a year (and half those usually came in one week during a summer FP tournament I did in Denver every year).  At least 2 of the years the one week Denver tournament was the only umpiring I did that entire year.  I probably umpired fewer than 30 baseball games total from 2005 until 2011.  During this time I was also not going to any clinics or reading any manuals.  I was just helping out my assignor basically when they really needed someone.

 

Since moving to Missouri I've not yet attained a full-time teaching position so I've had to umpire much more extensively.  Along with substitute teaching during the school year this is my job.  As I've done it more, I've taken it more seriously and become more dedicated to being the best I can be.  I take all advice into consideration.  A ton of it I implement.  But i do not agree with everything that experienced umpires say.  I've umpired long enough to also have my own opinions about things.  So while I need to get better, it's not like I'm an 18 year old kid just starting out.

[umpire_scott]

 

In the camp I attended I was taught "Ignore, acknowledge with mask on (just a look at the dugout), warn, EJECT"

I ignore the first chirp about balls and strikes that I hear. On the next one,  I combine steps 2 and 3. I say something like," I hear you (name), and we aren't going there today, knock it off !", if I hear them again...bye bye.

 

 

This is the approach I think would work best for me.