Chirping

[umpire_scott]

So I want to get as much feedback as I can on situations with coaches and what to allow and what to react to so I can improve in this area.  Yesterday I had a High School summer ball DH between two JV teams.  I had the dish for the first game and the VT coach was one of those guys that seems to think coaches are obligated to yell at their players and whine to the umpires about every close call in order to try and influence calls to go their way.

 

So in the second inning I ring up one of his players for the second out of the inning the VT coach is in the third base box and he says "come on you just stole an at bat from the kid".  He didn't yell it but said it loud enough for most to hear it.  An inning later while his pitcher is on the mound, with 2 strikes on the batter, I call a ball that started off the plate and broke into the LH batters box.  The batter was fooled by the pitch and started his swing but held up.  Catcher asked for appeal which I asked for and BU signaled no swing.  VT coach , from the dugout, says "should have been a called strike".  A few innings later while his team is batting I ring one of his players up on two consecutive pitches that he looked at.  Both were borderline pitches.  After the first the VT coach laughed from the 3rd base coaches box.  After the second he said "you've got to be kidding me".  All these instances were said without an raising of his voice and he never said them directly to me, except for the first one.

 

After I rung the kid with the two looking strikes the coach comes up to me on his way to give the other coach some substitutions and this his how the conversation goes:

 

Coach:  How are those strikes?

Me: They are over the plate.

Coach: But they are at his ankles.

Me: No they aren't.

Coach: Well we aren't getting those calls.

Me: Yes you are.

Coach: Look I'm trying to be patient here. . .but it's 90 degrees out here.

Me: So am I. (I said this as he was mentioning the temperature.  Plus this was said very firmly, with intended message being for his to drop it).

Coach:  Just call the zone (as he's walking away)

 

Once again in none of these instances did the coach every raise his voice.

 

Should I have done something sooner or was I okay in ignoring most of the earlier stuff?

[BigUmpire]

Scott

Seems to be a pattern with you.

You seem to want to talk and interact too much.

Every umpire on this forum will tell you that much dialog will only prolong the inevitable.

 

YOU MUST figure out how to get some respect OR these rats will keep making your life miserable.

Don't go to the ballbpark thinking you will make friends and have a fun time with these people.

 

I am from Missouri and know how people there act.

Grow some and stop trying to socialize with them and go to the game and umpire.

Its all about presense and attitude.

 

• "My last coach ejection was several years ago but I don't have to because they know I will"-mstaylor

[maven]

First of all, my conversation about balls and strikes looks a little different from yours.

 

Coach:  How are those strikes?

Me: They are over the plate. We're not discussing balls and strikes today. (stated calmly, not angrily, aggressively, or confrontationally)

Coach: But we're not...

Me: (more firmly) Coach, we're NOT discussing balls and strikes today.

Coach: But...

Me: Coach, listen carefully, WE ARE NOT discussing balls and strikes today.

 

And if he doesn't get it then, I'll invite him to leave the confines.

 

Next, chirping. You have to decide where your line is, and then enforce it. Your line should be where it becomes a distraction to you. SOP is:

 

1. Ignore it while you can.
2. Leaving your mask on, stare into the offending dugout for a moment between pitches.
3. If that doesn't work, between pitches call time, remove your mask, and tell the dugout, "that's enough." That is a warning, and it's all you need to say.
4. After the next chirp, eject the head coach. If it's a player, eject him. If you're not sure which player, eject the DH. When he complains that he didn't say anything, tell the dugout that somebody has to go, and if the one who said it won't speak up it'll be the DH.

The learning curve for game management can be steeper for some than for others, but if you don't address these blatant attempts to manipulate you, then you're not going to enjoy umpiring very much and you're not going to move up.

[Mike Prince]

Maven hit it on the head.  1) Ignore > 2) Acknowledge > 3) Warn > 4) Eject is a common progression/game management tip you will find here if you search

 

Or stated a bit differently

 

1) Bzzzzzzz-bzzzzzz there is this annoying insect flying around me, if I don't pay attention to it maybe it will get the message, stop and/or go away.

2) OK little bug, I see you and know you want attention

3) I will give you a swat, that's enough

4) Squish!

[BigUmp56]

I like the way Maven handles game management. It's a great way to put an end to the nonsense. I watched an MLB umpire use a technique several years ago to handle a coach chirping about the strike zone. I can't remember who it was, so maybe someone else can help me out. When he heard the chirping he turned to the dugout and asked the coach:

 

"Are you arguing balls and strikes?"

 

The manager started to state his case about how inconsistent the zone was, and the umpire abruptly cut him off,

 

"That's what I thought."

 

And he dumped him.

 

Tim.

[BigUmpire]

I like the way Maven handles game management. It's a great way to put an end to the nonsense. I watched an MLB umpire use a technique several years ago to handle a coach chirping about the strike zone. I can't remember who it was, so maybe someone else can help me out. When he heard the chirping he turned to the dugout and asked the coach:

 

"Are you arguing balls and strikes?"

 

The manager started to state his case about how inconsistent the zone was, and the umpire abruptly cut him off,

 

"That's what I thought."

 

And he dumped him.

 

Tim.

I LIKE IT!

[catsbackr]

The big thing you must remember is to WARN the coach. You have to WARN them, your ejection report as well as your assignor will require a WARNING.

[BigUmpire]

The big thing you must remember is to WARN the coach. You have to WARN them, your ejection report as well as your assignor will require a WARNING.

Why?

[BRUMP]

The big thing you must remember is to WARN the coach. You have to WARN them, your ejection report as well as your assignor will require a WARNING.

 

 

while I agree in general....every sitch is different.....sometimes a coach or player forfeits his right to a warning...if a batter draws a line on you are you warning him? if a coach tells you to go f#ck yourself are you warning him? again a good guideline but not universal

 

in this sitch IAWE

[Mike Prince]

Many associations will want to see a warning issued for a "normal" EJ - helps them go back to the coach - "Look, you were warned and kept going".  Keeps you from getting feedback that you EJ'd too quickly or the assignor hearing complaints that you were a redass.

 

If you don't have a warning, your assignor will be looking for an auto EJ situation where you did not have a chance to warn.  Of course this is not universal.

[blue23ll]

Warn? Not so much. There are lots of cases where you eject without warning.

 

Scott, the coaches chirp and jabber with you because you jabber with them. You are umpiring a baseball game not a debate. Notice how many of us on here say that we never have these issues? There is a reason for that.

[Forest Ump]

 

 

So in the second inning I ring up one of his players for the second out of the inning the VT coach is in the third base box and he says "come on you just stole an at bat from the kid".  He didn't yell it but said it loud enough for most to hear it.  

 

Right here is where you needed to say something. I'm not going to tell you what to say because everyone is different. You have to stomp on rats as soon as they come out of their hole.

[maven]

You brought a gun (EJ) to the coach's knife fight. Don't be afraid to use it.

 

I remind umpires who lose their tempers with coaches about this, and sometimes it helps them remain calm when the coach comes out on them.

 

[BigUmpire]

Warn? Not so much. There are lots of cases where you eject without warning.

 

Scott, the coaches chirp and jabber with you because you jabber with them. You are umpiring a baseball game not a debate. Notice how many of us on here say that we never have these issues? There is a reason for that.

"A little less talk, and a lot more action"- Bigumpire

[Dragon29]

The big thing you must remember is to WARN the coach. You have to WARN them, your ejection report as well as your assignor will require a WARNING.

Saying "That's enough" is their warning.

[BigUmp56]

Warn? Not so much. There are lots of cases where you eject without warning.

 

Scott, the coaches chirp and jabber with you because you jabber with them. You are umpiring a baseball game not a debate. Notice how many of us on here say that we never have these issues? There is a reason for that.

 

I think what he was saying is that in this situation (chirping about balls and strikes), there really should be some kind of warning given before the ejection. You're right though, that there are many situations where an immediate ejection without a warning is warranted.

 

Tim.

[JOHN3057]

I have done the long stare that cut through some coaches like a knife. I had one coach start mumbling to the point he didn't know what to do?

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2

[jjb]

Scott, these guys know what they're talking about. Let's look at it from the coaches' point of view:

 

He whined about the zone, because he thinks he can get the benefit of the next call. And you let him do it. So, he now thinks (a) it's a good thing, and (b) it's OK for him to do it. Now, he thinks the more he complains, the better the outcome will be. So, he thinks it'll be better for him to have a plate meeting where he can really get an advantage. You let him get away with this, he's going into full Earl Weaver Mode on you.

 

You've got to shut him down at Step One. If you do, he'll figure out that he's not going to be allowed to whine, and peace will ring out across the land.

 

You're not being a hard-ass out there, you're taking control.....

[umpire_scott]

So I guess the main message is that I should only "ignore" once.  I think that will be a good thought process to take into my next games.  I will ignore the first comment.  I like the IAWE.

 

I might change it to IWE though.  I don't know that I like the idea of just staring at a coach.  I get the concept as I use it on my students, but it seems rather disrespectful to do it to an adult.

[BRUMP]

So I guess the main message is that I should only "ignore" once.  I think that will be a good thought process to take into my next games.  I will ignore the first comment.  I like the IAWE.

 

I might change it to IWE though.  I don't know that I like the idea of just staring at a coach.  I get the concept as I use it on my students, but it seems rather disrespectful to do it to an adult.

 

you don't need to stare...just give him a look with the mask ON so he understands you hear him just fine

[catsbackr]

 

The big thing you must remember is to WARN the coach. You have to WARN them, your ejection report as well as your assignor will require a WARNING.

Why?

 

Unless it is an auto-eject situation, the assignors I work for require a warning.

 

The subject of this topic is chirping, my assignors require a warning for chirping.  Or, did we change subjects?

[Mike Prince]

So I guess the main message is that I should only "ignore" once.  I think that will be a good thought process to take into my next games.  I will ignore the first comment.  I like the IAWE.

 

I might change it to IWE though.  I don't know that I like the idea of just staring at a coach.  I get the concept as I use it on my students, but it seems rather disrespectful to do it to an adult.

 

It's far from disrespectful, it is a non-verbal way to let him know "I hear you, now that's enough".  The verbal warning can often be (construed as) way more disrespectful than the non-verbal acknowledgement.  When you verbally warn you are calling him out, sometimes rather publicly and embarrassing him which can escalate a situation.

 

Lets not give the coach too much credit here - if he is whining and arguing you are dealing with something less than a rational adult.

 

You asked for advice and got it, at least give it a fair chance before you overthink and prematurely pass judgement on it.

[UMP45]

Maven hit it on the head.  1) Ignore > 2) Acknowledge > 3) Warn > 4) Eject is a common progression/game management tip you will find here if you search

 

Or stated a bit differently

 

1) Bzzzzzzz-bzzzzzz there is this annoying insect flying around me, if I don't pay attention to it maybe it will get the message, stop and/or go away.

2) OK little bug, I see you and know you want attention

3) I will give you a swat, that's enough

4) Squish!

An additional step has been added. After acknowledge you engage then warn.

[Forest Ump]

So I guess the main message is that I should only "ignore" once.  I think that will be a good thought process to take into my next games.  I will ignore the first comment.  I like the IAWE.

 

I might change it to IWE though.  I don't know that I like the idea of just staring at a coach.  I get the concept as I use it on my students, but it seems rather disrespectful to do it to an adult.

 

It depends on what the first comment is. That coach said you stole an at bat from the kid. I'm addressing that right when I hear it. I may say something very sternly like, "Coach, that's unacceptable. If I hear another comment like that from you, I will run you." You gotta put a stop to that horse$hit right away. You have to exert yourself and show who is in control of the game. That's what an umpire must do.

[BigUmpire]

 

 

The big thing you must remember is to WARN the coach. You have to WARN them, your ejection report as well as your assignor will require a WARNING.

Why?

 

Unless it is an auto-eject situation, the assignors I work for require a warning.

 

The subject of this topic is chirping, my assignors require a warning for chirping.  Or, did we change subjects?

 

Nope.