Control? Safe? Out? HTBT?

[stl_ump]

11u Rec ball and I get these type of weird plays a lot.. but I digress.

 

Throw to F3 and he drops the ball and it's rolling around on the ground.  He is on the ground and grabs hold of it but does not pick it up.  So when the runner reaches first, F3 has his hand on top of the ball but the ball is still on the ground.  (He hasn't picked it up yet)

 

Out? Safe? Tie?

 

Thanks

[th3]

safe

[FlaUmp22]

just putting your hand on top of the ball doesn't demonstrate secure control to me

 

 

A CATCH is the act of a fielder in getting secure possession in his hand or glove of a ball in flight and firmly holding it

[umptwo]

Maybe a little HTBT. My take is that he 'could' have secure possession even if it's touching the ground. If he goes on to pick it up cleanly without him adjusting his grip or the ball moving in his hand, I'd say he had possession, even though his hand was on top. Judgement.

[hogsfan787]

just putting your hand on top of the ball doesn't demonstrate secure control to me

 

 

A CATCH is the act of a fielder in getting secure possession in his hand or glove of a ball in flight and firmly holding it

A catch only refers to a batted ball. A gloved ball refers to throw and in this case the OP refers to a tag (of a base). A tag unlike a catch only requires secure and complete possesion while the catch requires the fielder show some form of voluntary release of the ball.

[stl_ump]

 

just putting your hand on top of the ball doesn't demonstrate secure control to me

 

 

A CATCH is the act of a fielder in getting secure possession in his hand or glove of a ball in flight and firmly holding it

A catch only refers to a batted ball. A gloved ball refers to throw and in this case the OP refers to a tag (of a base). A tag unlike a catch only requires secure and complete possesion while the catch requires the fielder show some form of voluntary release of the ball.

 

Well that being the case what would you call if you've got a fielder on the ground with his hand on top of the ball and the ball still on the ground?  With the ball still on the ground would you call that COMPLETE possesion?

[FlaUmp22]

just putting your hand on top of the ball doesn't demonstrate secure control to me

A CATCH is the act of a fielder in getting secure possession in his hand or glove of a ball in flight and firmly holding it

A catch only refers to a batted ball. A gloved ball refers to throw and in this case the OP refers to a tag (of a base). A tag unlike a catch only requires secure and complete possesion while the catch requires the fielder show some form of voluntary release of the ball.

Which is the reason why I did not include the part about voluntary release.

[Dragon29]

I'll go with 'tie'

 

No, not really . . .

 

I like this:

 

Maybe a little HTBT. My take is that he 'could' have secure possession even if it's touching the ground. If he goes on to pick it up cleanly without him adjusting his grip or the ball moving in his hand, I'd say he had possession, even though his hand was on top. Judgement.

 

but I'd say most of the time this would not be an out.  His 'secure possession' on the ground would have to be pretty convincing.

[hogsfan787]

 

 

just putting your hand on top of the ball doesn't demonstrate secure control to me

 

 

A CATCH is the act of a fielder in getting secure possession in his hand or glove of a ball in flight and firmly holding it

A catch only refers to a batted ball. A gloved ball refers to throw and in this case the OP refers to a tag (of a base). A tag unlike a catch only requires secure and complete possesion while the catch requires the fielder show some form of voluntary release of the ball.

 

Well that being the case what would you call if you've got a fielder on the ground with his hand on top of the ball and the ball still on the ground?  With the ball still on the ground would you call that COMPLETE possesion?

 

I think it's a HTBT, but I think it is still possible to have complete control of the ball with it being on the ground and might call an OUT in that situation

[JaxRolo]

HTBT but if F3 is clenching the ball I got him out even if its not picked up

[HeadHunterLA]

HTBT but if F3 is clenching the ball I got him out even if its not picked up

 

I am going to have to disagree on this one.  F3 is going to have to pick that ball up and show it to me to get the out.

[mstaylor]

 

HTBT but if F3 is clenching the ball I got him out even if its not picked up

 

I am going to have to disagree on this one.  F3 is going to have to pick that ball up and show it to me to get the out.

 

Yes, he is going to have to pick it up without adjusting his grip, which is what umptwo said. I believe there is a Fed caseplay to that effect. 

[maven]

 

 

HTBT but if F3 is clenching the ball I got him out even if its not picked up

 

I am going to have to disagree on this one.  F3 is going to have to pick that ball up and show it to me to get the out.

 

Yes, he is going to have to pick it up without adjusting his grip, which is what umptwo said. I believe there is a Fed caseplay to that effect. 

 

 

Actually, Mike, it's in the rule book:

 

NFHS 2-9-1

NOTE: When a batted ball or a pitch is involved, the above definition of a catch applies. For any other thrown ball, the term is used loosely to also apply to a pick-up or to the trapping of a low throw which has touched the ground. A fielder may have the ball in his grasp even though it is touching the ground while in his glove.

 

The standard is secure possession of the ball. The OP is HTBT, but the fact that the ball is on the ground does NOT rule out the possibility that he is holding it. He is not required by rule to pick up the ball to demonstrate possession (though that might be sufficient, it is not necessary).

 

The OP stated that F3 "grabs hold of it," which sounds like possession to me.

[mstaylor]

I knew Fed addressed it but didn't have my book handy. And I wasn't smart enough to check my phone app.

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