Getting together...what do you do here...

[AmackNH]

^{No one on, 1 out.  Ball hit to F6.  He bobbles...rushes the throw to F3 banger, but I have an out.  Everything looked good.  Third base coach goes running down the line yelling time asking my Partner to "help me".  My partner correctly refers him out to me.  He wants me to get help on a possible pulled foot.  I am a little surprised by this as neither the runner of 1st base coach had an issue.  But since there were no runners and my partner trailed up to 45ft anyway I figure it cant hurt to check.}

 

^{We get together.  My partner says "I THINK I might have seen daylight between his foot and the bag but I dont know the timimg.  It could have been after he caught the ball."  I ask him "so your not positive of anything?  Cause I saw absolutely nothing unusual."  He says "not positive.".} 

 

^{What would you do here?  Keep it or put the runner on?}

[Mike Prince]

Stick with your call unless he gives you information that you think makes your call incorrect.

[Stan W.]

^{No one on, 1 out.  Ball hit to F6.  He bobbles...rushes the throw to F3 banger, but I have an out.  Everything looked good.  Third base coach goes running down the line yelling time asking my Partner to "help me".  My partner correctly refers him out to me.  He wants me to get help on a possible pulled foot.  I am a little surprised by this as neither the runner of 1st base coach had an issue.  But since there were no runners and my partner trailed up to 45ft anyway I figure it cant hurt to check.}

 

^{We get together.  My partner says "I THINK I might have seen daylight between his foot and the bag but I dont know the timimg.  It could have been after he caught the ball."  I ask him "so your not positive of anything?  Cause I saw absolutely nothing unusual."  He says "not positive.".} 

 

^{What would you do here?  Keep it or put the runner on?}

When you go to your partner on this, if he isnt positive he saw something different, you should stick wth your call..........it is your call to make and you are in the best postition to call it......... to change your mind, you need a doubt you got the call right and an absolutely positive differing opinion on his part . 

[grayhawk]

Now way am I changing my call with what PU gave you there.  3B coach was the head coach, I hope.

[BigUmpire]

^{“Third base coach goes running down the line yelling�}

^{He is done, keep running AND NO appeal bonehead!}

[Specks]

If I'm in "A" I'm not granting that appeal. I should be able to see a pulled foot. I'll just explain I had a good view and dont' need help.

[maven]

1. From A, get your own damn pulled foot. Take a read step and see it. (Sorry: peeve of mine.)

 

2. When coach asks me whether I can get help, I tell him I don't need help, I've got that all the way. I'll remain polite and respectful but firm. At least until coach indicates that he'd rather be elsewhere.

 

3. If I have any doubt, I don't mind conferring with my partner. I'm sufficiently "new school" to want to get it right. If he has nothing with 100% certainty, he should tell me he has nothing at all. Then we stick with my call.

 

Sometimes, you just gotta umpire!

[noumpere]

^{I figure it cant hurt to check.}

 

 

That's your mistake right there.  Tell the coach "no"

[UmpJeff]

1. From A, get your own damn pulled foot. Take a read step and see it. (Sorry: peeve of mine.)

 

2. When coach asks me whether I can get help, I tell him I don't need help, I've got that all the way. I'll remain polite and respectful but firm. At least until coach indicates that he'd rather be elsewhere.

 

3. If I have any doubt, I don't mind conferring with my partner. I'm sufficiently "new school" to want to get it right. If he has nothing with 100% certainty, he should tell me he has nothing at all. Then we stick with my call.

 

Sometimes, you just gotta umpire!

100% agree!

[umpire_scott]

I understand both sides of this and actually have used both methods depending on the situation.  My inclination in "A" is to not go for help because I would think that would make me look weak and might lead to trouble later on.  There really is very little reason to need help on that call.  So I would probably just explain to the coach that I was right on it, had a great angle, and am certain that I got the call right.  Now there might be circumstances that could lead me to just go to my partner to pacify the coach.  I know some will think this a bad idea and I can't really argue with them.  But I do what I think is best for the situation at hand.

[grayhawk]

This type of play is a good opportunity to "explain it before you have to explain it."  If F3 is close to pulling his foot, then you can preface the call with "Yes, he held the bag" while pointing, and then bang the out.  Makes it harder for a coach to complain because the guy closest to the play already told everyone that he saw F3's foot, and made a ruling with this information at hand.

 

If you say nothing, then they don't think you saw what they saw which gives them fuel for asking you to seek help.

[NCAAump2]

You should "never" get together with a partner just to appease a coach.  If you're in "A," you should never have to get help for a pulled foot, you're right there, make your own call.

[AmackNH]

Thankls guys.  I ended up keeping my call.  When i said to my partner "im keeping it" he looked surprised and said "really?"  as he walked away....after the game when we talked it through he STILL was sure he saw a pulled foot.  Point noted on not even getting together here.  Also, I didnt "explain it" as part of the call because absolutely nothing looked out of the norm to me...which was probably a clue that I shouldnt have granted the get together.  Lesson learned.

[jkumpire]

1. Own your call, period. It's your foot.

2. Only if you are absolutely desperate should you have a meeting with a partner on this, and never with a yelling coach who has zero angle on the play requesting it. 

3. Your partner was right to refer him to you, but if I was your partner I'd either ignore him, or tell him "it's his call."  

4. When you meet, ask: "Do you have anything (or added information) for me?' with a reason why you need help. More than likely he'll say no or give you 30 seconds of "I got nothing for you",  "I saw foot on bag", "the 3B coach in an idiot, isn't he?" or "Where are we buying root beers after the game, you owe me the first one for asking me about the pulled foot!"

5. Make you call and be done with it, unless 3B coach wants to remove himself for the rest of the day.

[jkumpire]

NH,

 

Your partner didn;t help you at all. He never said, "I saw him pull his foot." "I think" means he doesn't know. To say that after the game says he has a growth area there to work on. 

 

Obviously you made the right call, good job,     now never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never ask again! Just to reinforce it, Never do it again.

[jkumpire]

NH,

 

Did I say never go to you partner about a pulled foot again?  Just want to make sure I did. 

[AmackNH]

@jkumpire so your saying, sometimes go to him or never? 

[scrounge]

NH,

 

Did I say never go to you partner about a pulled foot again?  Just want to make sure I did. 

 

I don't agree with that at all....there's going to be times, rare but possible, where you just don't see it. Usually in B/C but very rarely in A, you'll get screened or straightlined. Now I agree in this particular situation, don't need to ask to placate a 3B coach. But to say never is overly absolute in my opinion.

[NCAAump2]

The only time i can think you might need to ask is if you're at a 45 degree angle from 1b and f3 is being pulled off the bag straight toward you.  Even then you can probably get a step to either side and see it,

[semper_fi_72]

Last night I was on the Bases for a 9/10 year old LL All Star game.

My partner is an experienced umpire as well.

Without getting into what his call was about, one of the managers called time and asked him if he could get help from me.

 

We meet in the infield and before he even starts to ask me anything I say:

"Unless you want to know how many Hot Dogs I am going to eat after the game, I don't have anything for you"

He asks, How many am I going to eat?

Me: Two

He says ok and returns to the plate.

 

Unfortunately the game went 8 innings and the Snack Bar was closed.

I didn't get my Hot Dogs.

HT won 6-7

[jkumpire]

NH,

 

Forgive me complete inability to communicate. I think I will spend the rest of my life with duct tape on my mouth and no keyboard on my computer.

 

Never ask your partner for help on a pulled foot. It's your call, make it.

 

Sorry for the confusion.

[jkumpire]

 

NH,

 

Did I say never go to you partner about a pulled foot again?  Just want to make sure I did. 

 

I don't agree with that at all....there's going to be times, rare but possible, where you just don't see it. Usually in B/C but very rarely in A, you'll get screened or straightlined. Now I agree in this particular situation, don't need to ask to placate a 3B coach. But to say never is overly absolute in my opinion.

 

 

When I was a young umpire I would occasionally go to my partner on a pulled foot. As I got better I realized that I need to own this call because if I need help then I didn't get in the proper place to see the play, or make the adjustment I need to see the play. 

 

In a 2 man, I am the base umpire. In a 3 man or up, I am the 1st base umpire! This designation says the call is yours. If it's my call it's my responsibility. Why should I make my partner do my job on this play?  

[HeadHunterLA]

I actually got straight lined in a game a couple of weeks ago for the first time in years, was in A and a ball hit to F6.  I had gotten my angle and throw pulled F3 right into my line of sight, tried to adjust but it was just one of those plays. I had an out if F3 kept his foot on the bag but I suspected he pulled it a bit as he was reaching for the throw. Cool thing was my partner and I have worked together so many times that I quickly glanced at him and sure enough he gave me a subtle "off the bag" sign and I was able to get it right and the timing looked just fine.  As to OP, no way in the world am I going to my partner for help because the 3B coach thinks he saw something.  Now if the 1B coach asks correctly I have no problem asking my partner for help, after I have made the original call of course.