Why would you do that???

[RichMSN]

Scott, when you're the BU, you have more important things to do when you are standing in short RF than stopping off at whatever base you feel is "dirty" and cleaning it.  You have fielders and team benches to keep an eye on, helping to make sure that teams are taking only 1 minute (or 90 seconds depending on rule set) between innings, instead of worrying about which base is the cleanest.  Is that a better reason than, "it just isn't done?"  

 

Bottom line, you're going to do whatever you want to do, no matter what we say.  As others have said, maybe once you get evaluated and it gets mentioned THEN you might realize we're right.

 

No, then the evaluator will be wrong, too, because his reasons won't be "good enough" for Scott.

[grayhawk]

I unsubscribed from this thread quite a while ago, but decided to come take a look for the heck of it.  Where do I cast my vote for the least helpful thread of the year?  Seriously, 6 pages about cleaning the bases?

[MUAump2]

Well, let's at least give him a chance, since I gave him actual reasons why not to clean them, instead of "just because it isn't done."

[umpire_scott]

I'm the one being flexible here, not the one being stubborn.  I'm not saying that ALL umpires need to clean bases.  I'm not saying they should.  All I'm saying is that it should not matter one way or the other.  In any job, not just umpiring, we have responsibilities.  As long as we meet those responsibilities there should not be a problem with us doing anything additional that in no way takes away from our job.

 

Think about this.  Many have said that they have kicked a base clean while giving time for a runner to recover from a slide.  Why would you do that?  All the other things about shoes getting dirty, doing something that isn't your job, still applies.  But it's okay because you are giving someone time?  But if I'm in "C", and on my way to RF, while the teams are going in and out of the dugout I stop and kick 2nd base clean, I'm getting ripped on my evaluation? 

 

Look I'm not the only umpire that feels this way, as evidenced by the hundreds of partners I've had over the years.  I'm also not the only experienced respected umpire on this board that feels this way.  I'm just the only one that continues to argue it.  But that's just me.  When someone says something ridiculous, like there is no need for home plate, I tend to get a little fired up and want to respond. On one hand you guys say that umpiring is about adjusting to situations and doing what is best for that game and time (such as the trouble ball I mentioned in another thread), then you say don't clean the bases because it's "not your job".  So which is it?  Are we robots or are we decision makers?  If I have a base that literally cannot be seen frequently I find it hard to believe that someone would tell me to not clean it periodically rather than tell me to adjust to that field and make the best decision for that field.

 

As I've stated before I do listen to what everyone says.  But unlike some sheep on this board I only follow the stuff that is based on logic and doing my job the best I can.  I've thanked people for their advice that has helped me numerous times.  So to say that no explanation is good enough for me is false.

[umpire_scott]

Scott, when you're the BU, you have more important things to do when you are standing in short RF than stopping off at whatever base you feel is "dirty" and cleaning it.  You have fielders and team benches to keep an eye on, helping to make sure that teams are taking only 1 minute (or 90 seconds depending on rule set) between innings, instead of worrying about which base is the cleanest.  Is that a better reason than, "it just isn't done?"  

 

Bottom line, you're going to do whatever you want to do, no matter what we say.  As others have said, maybe once you get evaluated and it gets mentioned THEN you might realize we're right.

 

I will say this.  You are correct about the fact that if i were evaluated and was told by my evaluator not to do it then when working for that association I would follow what they asked me to do.  I might not agree with it, but that would not matter.  I'm pretty confident that not all evaluators would have a problem with it.  I've worked with umpires that also were evaluators, and I've watched them kick a base clean.  Plus in games were the fields are bad enough to need it, they aren't likely to be evaluating me anyway.

[BigUmpire]

 

I can be convinced.  Explain to me why it's "bad umpiring".  Don't give me "it's just not done" or "it's not necessary".  Tell me why if someone cleaned a base between innings before going to short RF it would be an offense for which they would be downgraded on an evaluation.

 

Jim Evans taught that it's a good idea to leave some dirt on a bag.  If a bag is kicked at by a fielder, the dirt coming up from the base can be a clue as to whether the base was touched.

 

Of course this might have been his way of telling people to stop cleaning the freaking bases off.

 

With all of the pissing an moaning done in this thread Rich is the first one to give a real reason why we dont clean the bases. Thanks Rich!

[basejester]

Jim Evans taught that it's a good idea to leave some dirt on a bag.  If a bag is kicked at by a fielder, the dirt coming up from the base can be a clue as to whether the base was touched.

 

That's why I always go out between innings and sprinkle dirt on any bases that need it.

[umpire_scott]

 

Jim Evans taught that it's a good idea to leave some dirt on a bag.  If a bag is kicked at by a fielder, the dirt coming up from the base can be a clue as to whether the base was touched.

 

That's why I always go out between innings and sprinkle dirt on any bases that need it.

 

 

I just assumed that would be the duty of someone called "basejester". 

[HokieUmp]

As I've stated before I do listen to what everyone says.  But unlike some sheep on this board I only follow the stuff that is based on logic and doing my job the best I can.  I've thanked people for their advice that has helped me numerous times.  So to say that no explanation is good enough for me is false.

 

And there we go - the sheep/sheeple statement.

 

That argument is trotted out by people that claim to be unique, or mavericks, or free/right thinking people.  My reply:  statistically, no.  You're not.  You just aren't.  You're running against the flow, against the tide, because you're either wrong and unaware, or wrong but too damned stubborn to admit, or wrong and like being that way.

 

I'm not sure which that it is for you, umpire_scott.  Nor do I care.  I have two daughters, and the youngest (as a teen) sounds like you:  throwing "yeah-but"s and endless streams of words whenever she was wrong.  If you are not a troll, and you are over the age of 18, please just stop.

 

I'm sure I've said this before to you, but:  when it's you against the world, bet on the world and take the points.

 

Either that, or stop trying to convince the rest of us of your 'rightness.'  Every post costs you more and more credibility.

[Stan W.]

If its you against the world, bet on the world - Michael S Taylor

[HokieUmp]

If its you against the world, bet on the world - Michael S Taylor

 

Bumper Sticker

[MUAump2]

So I gave you a few reason as to why you don't clean off the bases, and they were legitimate reasons at that,,,yet you STILL are adamant that you are right.  Well I guess what they say is true, "you can't fix stupid."

[BigUmp56]

So I gave you a few reason as to why you don't clean off the bases, and they were legitimate reasons at that,,,yet you STILL are adamant that you are right.  Well I guess what they say is true, "you can't fix stupid."

 

 

I've always preferred: 

 

"There are none so blind as those that will not see."

 

Tim.

[umpire_scott]

So I gave you a few reason as to why you don't clean off the bases, and they were legitimate reasons at that,,,yet you STILL are adamant that you are right.  Well I guess what they say is true, "you can't fix stupid."

 

Aaron,

 

Three things:

 

1.  I never said I was "right".  Just because people disagree it does not always mean one is right and one is wrong.

 

2. I stated your reasons were valid.  Now we both umpire for a lot of the same organizations.  Are you telling me that at Founders Park in Lake St. Louis, where the bases are closer to brown than white, and the area around first and second base on one of the fields (#3 I think), is a literal sand box, you are going to worry more about being evaluated or getting your shoes dirty than keeping that field playable? There is a time and a place for everything.

 

3.  I've been nice and respectful to you.  We both work for the same organizations and may have to work together.  It's probably positive professional courtesy for you to consider that before calling me stupid.

[umpire_scott]

 

As I've stated before I do listen to what everyone says.  But unlike some sheep on this board I only follow the stuff that is based on logic and doing my job the best I can.  I've thanked people for their advice that has helped me numerous times.  So to say that no explanation is good enough for me is false.

 

And there we go - the sheep/sheeple statement.

 

That argument is trotted out by people that claim to be unique, or mavericks, or free/right thinking people.  My reply:  statistically, no.  You're not.  You just aren't.  You're running against the flow, against the tide, because you're either wrong and unaware, or wrong but too damned stubborn to admit, or wrong and like being that way.

 

I'm not sure which that it is for you, umpire_scott.  Nor do I care.  I have two daughters, and the youngest (as a teen) sounds like you:  throwing "yeah-but"s and endless streams of words whenever she was wrong.  If you are not a troll, and you are over the age of 18, please just stop.

 

I'm sure I've said this before to you, but:  when it's you against the world, bet on the world and take the points.

 

Either that, or stop trying to convince the rest of us of your 'rightness.'  Every post costs you more and more credibility.

 

 

I agree with you regarding "you against the world".  I just happen to know that this thread does not represent the world.  It represents people that disagree with me.  Which is about 10 umpires.  And once again regardless of all the extraneous nonsense about whether we need home plate or not, the only viable disagreement here is whether on a SH*#ty field it's permissible to clean a base that is covered in dirt.  The tournaments I work, I'm pretty sure the TD would much prefer me to kick the thing clean, and have a dirty shoe, than leave it covered in dirt.  So as I'm being hired by and paid by the TD that's what I'm going to do.  I work with umpires at these tournaments that are talking to the pitcher or the coaches in between innings and never make it to RF between any inning of 4 straight games.  So I'd much prefer working with a guy that at least does something mildly useful between innings.

[BigUmpire]

Scott

from one Missourian to another, its time to move on.

 

In the words of another great Missourian:

• "This is not a hill to die onâ€-Bigumpire

[MUAump2]

First of all, I was implying that this whole argument, for the most part, is stupid.  Not you, and I apologize if you took it personally.  That was certainly not my intention.  

 

That being said, I don't recall you saying anything about the reasons I gave you for not doing it (your responsibilities as the BU), except that if you were evaluated and it was mentioned to not clean off the bases, that you would oblige.  No one here has never said that it is not permissible for the BU to clean off the bases.  If you want to spray paint the bases every half inning, go for it.  But if you look in any umpire manual that I can think of, I can almost guarantee you where it lists "Base Umpire Responsibilities," you won't find 'cleaning bases' anywhere.

[flastyle727]

118 responses for cleaning the bases....wow.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

[flastyle727]

My 2¢...I've never seen an umpire with a consistent Var. HS schedule, collegiate, or high level baseball aspirations clean or teach to clean bases. It's not to say you can't, it's just taboo. When in Rome, act as the Romans.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

[HokieUmp]

 

 

As I've stated before I do listen to what everyone says.  But unlike some sheep on this board I only follow the stuff that is based on logic and doing my job the best I can.  I've thanked people for their advice that has helped me numerous times.  So to say that no explanation is good enough for me is false.

 

And there we go - the sheep/sheeple statement.

 

That argument is trotted out by people that claim to be unique, or mavericks, or free/right thinking people.  My reply:  statistically, no.  You're not.  You just aren't.  You're running against the flow, against the tide, because you're either wrong and unaware, or wrong but too damned stubborn to admit, or wrong and like being that way.

 

I'm not sure which that it is for you, umpire_scott.  Nor do I care.  I have two daughters, and the youngest (as a teen) sounds like you:  throwing "yeah-but"s and endless streams of words whenever she was wrong.  If you are not a troll, and you are over the age of 18, please just stop.

 

I'm sure I've said this before to you, but:  when it's you against the world, bet on the world and take the points.

 

Either that, or stop trying to convince the rest of us of your 'rightness.'  Every post costs you more and more credibility.

 

 

I agree with you regarding "you against the world".  I just happen to know that this thread does not represent the world.  It represents people that disagree with me.  Which is about 10 umpires.  And once again regardless of all the extraneous nonsense about whether we need home plate or not, the only viable disagreement here is whether on a SH*#ty field it's permissible to clean a base that is covered in dirt.  The tournaments I work, I'm pretty sure the TD would much prefer me to kick the thing clean, and have a dirty shoe, than leave it covered in dirt.  So as I'm being hired by and paid by the TD that's what I'm going to do.  I work with umpires at these tournaments that are talking to the pitcher or the coaches in between innings and never make it to RF between any inning of 4 straight games.  So I'd much prefer working with a guy that at least does something mildly useful between innings.

 

 

The 10 people that disagree with you here simply are the 10 people that are bothering to try.  I guarantee there are plenty of others out there, on this board or not.  And plenty of those people that are out there are evaluators and other people that will determine whether or not you'll ever move up.

 

Of COURSE the TD won't mind - these tournaments are money makers.  If he can you to be his field biotch, there's less he'll need other people for.  You're actually hired by that TD to officiate, not groundskeep, so it's not just an "I'll do what I'm paid for" thing.

 

And isn't it indicative of your umpire career that you're working with guys that won't get out to the between-innings places?  They're Smittys, and if you're surrounded by them, you're either one of them, or going to get guilt-by-association'ed by them.

 

Do what you feel is necessary.  You've been given the advice and information from people that know their stuff.  Either follow it or don't.  But for the love of all that is holy, stop trying to convince everyone else that you're the One Right Guy.  Or that YOU'RE The Keeper of the Logical Answer.  We don't groundskeep, because it makes us look like schmucks, and not like professionals.  Sometimes, that kind of answer is All.  There.  Is.

[flastyle727]

+1

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[JaxRolo]

OMG!!! Will a mod please close this thread. It's taking up to much Internet space!!!

[RichMSN]

OMG!!! Will a mod please close this thread. It's taking up to much Internet space!!!

 

We just need a mod to post a picture of someone flogging a dead horse saying "in before the lock" -- and then locking the thread, of course.

[scrounge]

not a mod, but glad to be of service!!!

 

 

 

[UmpJeff]

umpire_scott, you are clearly in the minority here, please get over it and move on.

I've been lurking and reading many of his recent posts.  Most of them always seem to end up being argumentative in nature.  He sounds eerily similar to a certain fairy tale creature and a bridge..T.R.O.L.L.

 

Of course, that's just my   I could be wrong.  YMMV...