Why would you do that???

[noumpere]

I found it funny that during the second game when he was on the bases he kicked the pitching plate clean in the middle of the game.  He only did this once. 

He might have been talking to the pitcher and used the kick as a ruse.  I dont know what level "college" he does but if it happens and its not to talk to the players then its a downgrade at most college games.

[RichMSN]

 

I found it funny that during the second game when he was on the bases he kicked the pitching plate clean in the middle of the game.  He only did this once. 

He might have been talking to the pitcher and used the kick as a ruse.  I dont know what level "college" he does but if it happens and its not to talk to the players then its a downgrade at most college games.

 

 

I'll do that when I'm telling a pitcher to make sure he comes set so I don't have to have a balk-a-thon.

 

Has nothing to do with the cleanliness of the rubber.  Hell, I'll kick dirt off a base if a player slides in and needs time to adjust his uniform, etc.  It's courtesy to give the runner a moment, nothing to do with the base having dirt on it.

[umpire_scott]

 

I found it funny that during the second game when he was on the bases he kicked the pitching plate clean in the middle of the game.  He only did this once. 

He might have been talking to the pitcher and used the kick as a ruse.  I dont know what level "college" he does but if it happens and its not to talk to the players then its a downgrade at most college games.

 

 

He actually did it between innings.  I think it was because he was having difficulty seeing whether the pitcher was engaged with the plate or not.

[noumpere]

I did an experiment yesterday.  Worked a college wood bat DH by myself (no that wasn't the plan nor the experiment).  Didn't brush off the plate at all during an inning (well, one time I gave it a couple of swipes with a foot as I was inquiring of my catcher whether he needed some time after blocking a pitch).  No one asked that it be cleaned.  No one said anything about it.  Several times it was mostly covered.

 

And, heck, they might not even have had a rubber on the mound for all I could tell. 

[RichMSN]

 

 

I found it funny that during the second game when he was on the bases he kicked the pitching plate clean in the middle of the game.  He only did this once. 

He might have been talking to the pitcher and used the kick as a ruse.  I dont know what level "college" he does but if it happens and its not to talk to the players then its a downgrade at most college games.

 

 

He actually did it between innings.  I think it was because he was having difficulty seeing whether the pitcher was engaged with the plate or not.

 

 

Unnecessary.  If the pitcher is on the mound in a way that suggests he's on the rubber, he's on the rubber.  If he makes a motion associated with a pitch and he's really not on the rubber, it's a balk.  

 

I couldn't care if there's actually a rubber there or not.

[umpire_scott]

 

 

 

I found it funny that during the second game when he was on the bases he kicked the pitching plate clean in the middle of the game.  He only did this once. 

He might have been talking to the pitcher and used the kick as a ruse.  I dont know what level "college" he does but if it happens and its not to talk to the players then its a downgrade at most college games.

 

 

He actually did it between innings.  I think it was because he was having difficulty seeing whether the pitcher was engaged with the plate or not.

 

 

Unnecessary.  If the pitcher is on the mound in a way that suggests he's on the rubber, he's on the rubber.  If he makes a motion associated with a pitch and he's really not on the rubber, it's a balk.  

 

I couldn't care if there's actually a rubber there or not.

 

 

Really?  So he is standing there and throws to first without stepping towards first.  And you don't need to know if he was in contact with the rubber?

[RichMSN]

Nope.  If he's in what looks like a set position and he moves to first without stepping back with his pivot foot, he's on the rubber.

 

I'm serious, BTW.  I couldn't care less if there's a rubber or not.

[umpire_scott]

Nope.  If he's in what looks like a set position and he moves to first without stepping back with his pivot foot, he's on the rubber.

 

I'm serious, BTW.  I couldn't care less if there's a rubber or not.

 

Am I missing something?  Pitchers stand straddling the rubber all the time hoping that the runner does not realize it and steps off the base.  They also stand in the exact same position when in contact with the rubber.  If they are in contact with the rubber they need to step to throw.  If not in contact with the rubber they can just whip a quick throw over with no other movement.

 

So I guess all that stupid stuff in the rules about being in contact with the rubber is meaningless?

[RichMSN]

 

Nope.  If he's in what looks like a set position and he moves to first without stepping back with his pivot foot, he's on the rubber.

 

I'm serious, BTW.  I couldn't care less if there's a rubber or not.

 

Am I missing something?  Pitchers stand straddling the rubber all the time hoping that the runner does not realize it and steps off the base.  They also stand in the exact same position when in contact with the rubber.  If they are in contact with the rubber they need to step to throw.  If not in contact with the rubber they can just whip a quick throw over with no other movement.

 

So I guess all that stupid stuff in the rules about being in contact with the rubber is meaningless?

 

 

If they're straddling the rubber, there's significant space between the feet -- at least the width of the rubber.  And actually more, since the free foot is usually in the same position as when F1 is engaged.  If F1 is engaged, the feet are together -- they're not in the same position.

 

Any good baserunner or coach can tell if the pitcher is engaged or not -- and so can any decent umpire.  I'm not sure why you think I'm kidding you.

[umpire_scott]

 

 

Nope.  If he's in what looks like a set position and he moves to first without stepping back with his pivot foot, he's on the rubber.

 

I'm serious, BTW.  I couldn't care less if there's a rubber or not.

 

Am I missing something?  Pitchers stand straddling the rubber all the time hoping that the runner does not realize it and steps off the base.  They also stand in the exact same position when in contact with the rubber.  If they are in contact with the rubber they need to step to throw.  If not in contact with the rubber they can just whip a quick throw over with no other movement.

 

So I guess all that stupid stuff in the rules about being in contact with the rubber is meaningless?

 

 

If they're straddling the rubber, there's significant space between the feet -- at least the width of the rubber.  And actually more, since the free foot is usually in the same position as when F1 is engaged.  If F1 is engaged, the feet are together -- they're not in the same position.

 

Any good baserunner or coach can tell if the pitcher is engaged or not -- and so can any decent umpire.  I'm not sure why you think I'm kidding you.

 

In many cases you are correct but not all.  I've seen pitchers with their lead foot well in front of their pivot foot.  And not all baserunner or coaches are good.  The rules don't just apply to good players and coaches.

[RichMSN]

 

 

 

Nope.  If he's in what looks like a set position and he moves to first without stepping back with his pivot foot, he's on the rubber.

 

I'm serious, BTW.  I couldn't care less if there's a rubber or not.

 

Am I missing something?  Pitchers stand straddling the rubber all the time hoping that the runner does not realize it and steps off the base.  They also stand in the exact same position when in contact with the rubber.  If they are in contact with the rubber they need to step to throw.  If not in contact with the rubber they can just whip a quick throw over with no other movement.

 

So I guess all that stupid stuff in the rules about being in contact with the rubber is meaningless?

 

 

If they're straddling the rubber, there's significant space between the feet -- at least the width of the rubber.  And actually more, since the free foot is usually in the same position as when F1 is engaged.  If F1 is engaged, the feet are together -- they're not in the same position.

 

Any good baserunner or coach can tell if the pitcher is engaged or not -- and so can any decent umpire.  I'm not sure why you think I'm kidding you.

 

In many cases you are correct but not all.  I've seen pitchers with their lead foot well in front of their pivot foot.  And not all baserunner or coaches are good.  The rules don't just apply to good players and coaches.

 

 

There's no convincing you, obviously.  Continue to clean off pitching plates and bases and just keep on thinking that's good umpiring then.

 

So many years of good experience on this site and I guess we're all idiots.

[umpire_scott]

I can be convinced.  Explain to me why it's "bad umpiring".  Don't give me "it's just not done" or "it's not necessary".  Tell me why if someone cleaned a base between innings before going to short RF it would be an offense for which they would be downgraded on an evaluation.

[JHSump]

Here are some other grounds keeping chores you could do.  See if it makes sense to do these, when you read the list over.  

 

Sometimes a hole develops in front of the pitcher's rubber.  Can you tell if the pitcher is "touching" the rubber when he is in the hole?  Do you fill in that hole, pat the dirt down?  Make it firm enough so it's clear exactly where the pitchers is standing?

 

Sometimes the foul line wiggles a bit.  Do you cross it out and do it over again --- yourself?

 

When the foul line gets spread out due to action during the game, do you redo it?  You know, grab the chalking machine and just give it a few shots?

 

Dirt piles up in front of various bags.  Do you get in there and brush it out?  Maybe use your clean shoes to push it aside?  (They are clearn, and shiny, right?)  Or just get in there with your hands and shove it all aside?

 

The batter's boxes get obscured during a game.  Do you give 'em a quick shot with some chalk?

 

The 1B and 3B bases are sometimes not on the foul line properly.  Do you erase the line, and do it again --- yourself?

 

Bases get knocked out of their supports.  Do you dig out the hole, with your hands, and reset the base?  Ever get dirty doing that?  Does that seem dignified?  Worthy of your position as umpire?

 

Do you begin to see that these are grounds keeping jobs, not umpiring jobs?

 

Do you begin to see that once you cross the line from umpire to grounds crew you begin to open yourself up to being treated as a "fixture" there for the coaches to see as secondary to their goals?  Do you realize we the umpires are already almost treated as fixtures?  Do you think maybe we should not promote that attitude?

 

Do you see that sweeping the bases and rubber can easily be seen as just another grounds keeping activity?

 

Do you realize you are the only person (along with your partners) that represents baseball?  Everyone else is there for themselves, not to put too fine a point on it.  In your position, you are not the hired help.  It is your game.  You are not a grounds keeper.  You are the judge in the courtroom.  Your "robes" should be clean.  You should be above the fray.  You should be higher on the ladder of actors in the game than the coaches, players...and the grounds crew.

 

Does this help?

[scrounge]

I can be convinced.  Explain to me why it's "bad umpiring".  Don't give me "it's just not done" or "it's not necessary".  Tell me why if someone cleaned a base between innings before going to short RF it would be an offense for which they would be downgraded on an evaluation.

 

Do whatever the hell you want, dude.

[RichMSN]

I can be convinced.  Explain to me why it's "bad umpiring".  Don't give me "it's just not done" or "it's not necessary".  Tell me why if someone cleaned a base between innings before going to short RF it would be an offense for which they would be downgraded on an evaluation.

 

Jim Evans taught that it's a good idea to leave some dirt on a bag.  If a bag is kicked at by a fielder, the dirt coming up from the base can be a clue as to whether the base was touched.

 

Of course this might have been his way of telling people to stop cleaning the freaking bases off.

[Mike Prince]

I can be convinced.  Explain to me why it's "bad umpiring".  Don't give me "it's just not done" or "it's not necessary".  Tell me why if someone cleaned a base between innings before going to short RF it would be an offense for which they would be downgraded on an evaluation.

 

Get an actual evaluation from your association, you can then be convinced directly from your evaluator why this is "bad umpiring".  Then you can argue with him endlessly about it, because the argument here is going nowhere.

[BigUmp56]

Here are some other grounds keeping chores you could do.  See if it makes sense to do these, when you read the list over.  

 

Sometimes a hole develops in front of the pitcher's rubber.  Can you tell if the pitcher is "touching" the rubber when he is in the hole?  Do you fill in that hole, pat the dirt down?  Make it firm enough so it's clear exactly where the pitchers is standing?

 

Sometimes the foul line wiggles a bit.  Do you cross it out and do it over again --- yourself?

 

When the foul line gets spread out due to action during the game, do you redo it?  You know, grab the chalking machine and just give it a few shots?

 

Dirt piles up in front of various bags.  Do you get in there and brush it out?  Maybe use your clean shoes to push it aside?  (They are clearn, and shiny, right?)  Or just get in there with your hands and shove it all aside?

 

The batter's boxes get obscured during a game.  Do you give 'em a quick shot with some chalk?

 

The 1B and 3B bases are sometimes not on the foul line properly.  Do you erase the line, and do it again --- yourself?

 

Bases get knocked out of their supports.  Do you dig out the hole, with your hands, and reset the base?  Ever get dirty doing that?  Does that seem dignified?  Worthy of your position as umpire?

 

Do you begin to see that these are grounds keeping jobs, not umpiring jobs?

 

Do you begin to see that once you cross the line from umpire to grounds crew you begin to open yourself up to being treated as a "fixture" there for the coaches to see as secondary to their goals?  Do you realize we the umpires are already almost treated as fixtures?  Do you think maybe we should not promote that attitude?

 

Do you see that sweeping the bases and rubber can easily be seen as just another grounds keeping activity?

 

Do you realize you are the only person (along with your partners) that represents baseball?  Everyone else is there for themselves, not to put too fine a point on it.  In your position, you are not the hired help.  It is your game.  You are not a grounds keeper.  You are the judge in the courtroom.  Your "robes" should be clean.  You should be above the fray.  You should be higher on the ladder of actors in the game than the coaches, players...and the grounds crew.

 

Does this help?

 

I cannot applaud this post enough!

 

Tim.

[blue23ll]

It is poor umpiring because IT IS NOT YOUR JOB!  Stick to why you are there.

[BRUMP]

my .02 sometimes you just do it because it is expected...while its good to know why sometimes its better to just leave it alone

[blue23ll]

I am done with this thread, but I will respond to BRUMP.  I know what is expected of me, I have been trained, I have 20 years experience, and I have been to a whole lot of clinics. Not ONCE has any instructor explained how to clean a base with a plate brush. Not ONCE have I been evaluated and told I need to clean the rubber more.

 

I'm out!

[umpire_scott]

I hope you realize that in the grand scheme of things I'm not being the stubborn one here.  I've pointed the things said on this forum to many fans and other umpires.  They laugh and shake their heads and say things like "that's why a lot of umpires. . . ".  It makes no sense to me that cleaning the plate is part of my job, but cleaning a base is not.  This thread keeps going askew because you guys try to make your points with gross exaggerations.  Jim Evans saying a little dirt on the base is good makes no sense to this conversation because I've already said I have seldom had to clean a base on most high school fields let alone higher level than that.  My main contention is when I do games on bad fields where the bases can literally get covered with dirt, or where the bases have not been cleaned in so long that their normal color is light brown to begin with, I have no problem kicking it clean.  

 

Bringing up chalk lines, concession sales, greeting fans is all stupid exaggerations.  As a plate umpire I brush off home plate.  I do this so that both the players and umpire can see it better.  To think it's outlandish to also want the other things (bases and pitching plate) to also be visible is dumb.

 

The only logical explanation, and NONE OF YOU have given it to me, is that the umpire has responsibilities while in RF between innings and would not be doing them to the best of his or her abilities if they first cleaned a base.  I still think there is time to do both, but I would at least understand that line of thinking.

[BigUmp56]

Then as others have said, do what you feel you need to do. I'll tell you that in both associations I belong to, it would be a knock in an evaluation if it was done.

 

Tim.

[LMSANS]

This is going around and around and around and around and around...

 

Maybe we should close it and move on to a real discussion...

[RichMSN]

 

"As a plate umpire I brush off home plate.  I do this so that both the players and umpire can see it better."

 

No, you do it because it's expected.  It's custom.  It's what umpires DO.  Don't try to make up reasons why it's done when you have no real clue yourself.

 

Quite frankly, we could play a game without a home plate and the only problem we'd have is where would the base runner touch to score a run.  I could easily call balls and strikes and catchers could still catch, batters could still hit, and we'd have no problems at all.

 

 

[NCAAump2]

Scott, when you're the BU, you have more important things to do when you are standing in short RF than stopping off at whatever base you feel is "dirty" and cleaning it.  You have fielders and team benches to keep an eye on, helping to make sure that teams are taking only 1 minute (or 90 seconds depending on rule set) between innings, instead of worrying about which base is the cleanest.  Is that a better reason than, "it just isn't done?"  

 

Bottom line, you're going to do whatever you want to do, no matter what we say.  As others have said, maybe once you get evaluated and it gets mentioned THEN you might realize we're right.